Passive Throws?

[Water Bob]

Simple situation: You're the GM, prepping for your next game. You're setting up an ambush for the PCs to kick the next session off with a POW!

It's a simple trail that you know the PCs will be traveling (because you left off last session with the PCs following that trail). You grab some enemies--maybe some goblins--and you hide them in the bushes that flank the trail.

Next game session, you'll pick up where you left off. Describe a bright, beautiful morning. As the PCs walk, the shadows from the trees play on their faces.

And then....

POW!





What I'm wondering here is how do you handle passive checks? Shouldn't you roll the gobbies' Hide vs. the PC's Spot? Or a Listen vs. Move Silent (big bonus because the goblins aren't moving?) Or, do you only do that when a player specifically asks for a check?

If you do roll a passive roll, giving the PCs a chance to spot a buckle reflecting in the sun, or some such give-away, then how do you manage it. Do you just ask the player to throw (this seems like it would make even the dumbest player alert to possible combat ahead), not telling him what it's for?

Do you make the players roll early, maybe at the start of each game session, or keeping a list of previously thrown roll totals?

Do you just roll for the PCs yourself (I know that most players love to roll their own dice and dislike it when the GM does it for them).



How do you take care of this situation in a game?

 

[anest1s]

How do you take care of this situation in a game?

When PCs begin to go from place A to place B, every one of them roll a Spot and a Listen Check. Depending on if your NPCs hide or not, their lowest hide/move silently check, the surroundings, the light etc, the highest roll of the party determines at what distance the player with said higher roll spots/listens the incoming encounter. If the NPCs hide, they may even not notice it at all. If there is no encounter, then they roll just to make sure they won't metagame next time you ask them to roll.

 

[Water Bob]

When PCs begin to go from place A to place B, every one of them roll a Spot and a Listen Check.

But, still, if you ask them to do this, won't a player remember if he rolled low or high when it actually comes times to use the check? You're still letting the cat out of the bag, aren't ya?

The PCs have metagame knowledge in the (1) they know to expect something along the journey because you made them roll, and (2) some players may remember (or even write down) their check, letting them know if their roll was low or high--giving them metagame knowledge of how their roll turned out, an d they are able to act accordingly.



It seems like there's got to be a better way. Right now, I'm leaning towards either (1) just rolling it myself behind the screen, or (2) not allowing any passive checks at all. A player would need to ask for a throw when he wants one.

 

[domino]

If there's something hidden, a roll should be given, even if the players don't ask for it, otherwise that's a douche thing to do.

"I enter the room and greet the duke."
"The duke's gaurds get a surprise round against you because you didn't look for them."
Dice are thrown, words are exchanged, houses wind up aflame.

You can make the roll yourself to see if they see the bad guys, if you want to keep it a secret, and not let the players know there's something out there until their characters do. Or you can tell the players to do it, and make them paranoid/prepared.

I generally like to let the players roll, but that's a personal preference. Probably should roll for them, so they don't know there's rolling, don't know what they rolled. (roll a 3, know you probably don't see everything, roll a 20, know you've probably found all there is to find.)

If the goblins aren't moving, I wouldn't have a move silently check. Just a spot v. hide for the goblins they'd see. Not all the goblins need to be within spotting range, if they just left a sentry forward, then only one goblin needs to make his hide check. Obviously, the one with the best hide check. Later, you'd either have a hide check for everyone waiting in ambush later, or a move silently check for the group as they move into position.

And of course, you can always make them roll for no reason at all.

 

[anest1s]

Player 1: "Ok so we will travel trough the forest today, and after two days of traveling we should be there"
DM:"Anyone wants to do something before you go?"
Player 2: "No we are ok"
DM: "Tell me in what formation you walk (after reply) You start following the short path, (description blah blah)-any of you want to do something, or should we fast forward?"
Player 1: "I check for some landmarks, so maybe we can find a shortcut on our way back"
DM: "You notice a great mountain at a distance, and some hills north-it should be enough to find your way back even if you leave the road. Anyone else?"
Player 2 "No we are ok"
DM: "Everyone roll spot and listen"
Option 1-"Nothing happens during the trip, and after 8 hours of walking, its time to think where to set camp..."
Option 2-"After 3 hours of walking, first you, Player 2, notice a move in the trees along the side. It takes you a moment to realize, that there are 2 hidden man aiming at you with their longbows!"

You place the enemies in the right distance, then surprise round for those who noticed the other side (one side probably is fully aware, and members of the other side aren't), then normal rounds.

 

[Empirate]

What I do when I know passive checks will be coming up is the following:

0. I have all PCs' Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive bonuses noted.
1. All players at the table roll a d20 six times, I write down the results.
2. When a passive check is called for, I pick the first roll for each player and add in the appropriate modifiers. Normally, I know beforehand when a "check" will be necessary, so I'll know beforehand which characters notice anything.
2. a) When I feel I'm taking into account the rolled results and metagame too much, I can also just roll a d6 to determine which pre-rolled d20 result I'll pick for each player.

Another thing you can do is have your players roll random Spot/Listen/Sense Motive checks every once in a while. Tell them interesting but non-crucial details if the situation isn't important. That way, you can immerse players in your game world more and make them feel like a high Spot bonus really lets them notice things the other guys in the party miss, or high Sense Motive really provides them with a good "feel" of their interlocutor.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Another thing you can do is have your players roll random Spot/Listen/Sense Motive checks every once in a while. Tell them interesting but non-crucial details if the situation isn't important. That way, you can immerse players in your game world more and make them feel like a high Spot bonus really lets them notice things the other guys in the party miss, or high Sense Motive really provides them with a good "feel" of their interlocutor.

I do this one as well. On top of what Empirate noted, you can instill plenty of fear in your players with a knowing smirk and "There isn't anything of interest there...as far as you can tell, anyway...."

 

[delericho]

I typically have the PC Listen/Spot numbers noted. When there's a need for a passive throw, I'll make the roll for them.

Either that, or have the PCs make rolls at random times.

Either that, or just have the roll when needed, and trust them not to metagame it too much.

 

[Ranes]

If I've got an ambush set up, for example, I give the PCs a chance to spot or hear something that might tip them off, because there absolutely should be such a chance. But I don't want to tip the players off.

In other words, in these circumstances, I make the rolls for the PCs. My players know I do this but they don't know when I'm doing it. If players ever ask to make such a check, they are welcome to do so and make the check themselves.

Incidentally, the PHB recommends that disable device checks are made by the DM, because the PC shouldn't know whether or not the action he's taken to disable the trap really has done that. Note that a failure to disable a device doesn't necessarily mean that the trap is set off. For that to happen, the roll must fail by five or more. If your diable attempt fails and you haven't set off the trap, you can try again but only if you know you've failed. That can be tricky to DM to a rogue player's satisfaction. Fortunately, my players trust me to be fair. I try to give a player some hint about the result by the way in which I describe it.

 

[Greenfield]

If there is someone explicitly on scout duty, they get a roll. Otherwise it's presumed that people are taking 10 on Spot and Listen rolls, all the time (with the -5 modifier for being distracted).

At least, that's the way I use it. Keeps things simple.