Pathfinder 2 Character Sheet #4: Seelah, Human Paladin

It's time for the 4th of our six reveals of the Pathfinder 2nd Edition pregenerated playtest characters. Today, we'll be looking at Seelah, the human paladin. This sheet covers some of the shield mechanics we saw in Valeros' sheet, along with various paladin powers such as Lay on Hands, Hospice Knight, Warded Touch, and Retributive Strike.

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"Seelah has a few things on her sheet that might surprise you, depending on how well you know her backstory. She grew up as a pickpocket before she stole from the paladin of Iomedae who changed her life, and so she actually has Thievery, the Pickpocket feat, and Underworld Lore (I like to think that when she uses it to Practice a Trade, she’s working as a white hat consultant who helps businesses defend against criminal activity). Beyond that, her Retributive Strike punishes enemies for attacking anyone but her, and her lay on hands not only heals a target (avoiding Attacks of Opportunity and the like and usable with her shield thanks to her Warded Touch feat), but when she uses it nonselfishly to protect her allies, it also provides a boost to AC to help prevent the ally from just taking the damage again in the next round."

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Keep an eye out for tomorrow's character, Merisiel, the elf rogue!

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[mellored]

I feel as though I don't have a very clear idea of what playstyle PF2 is attempting to achieve.

best as I can tell....
Just a bucket of abilities to choose from. And plenty of fiddly bits so each ability has it's niche.

 

[Charlaquin]

I feel as though I don't have a very clear idea of what playstyle PF2 is attempting to achieve.

Could you be more specific about what you mean by playstyle?

 

[Argyle King]

best as I can tell....
Just a bucket of abilities to choose from. And plenty of fiddly bits so each ability has it's niche.

Could you be more specific about what you mean by playstyle?

I've seen a few interviews which talk about a more "cinematic" style.

However, I also see rules such as damage to shields -which would imply touches of something a little more gritty.

Likewise, I see the idea of backgrounds and story being highlighted, but then the mechanics do not appear to support that very well.

If there's anything available which details encounter design, I haven't seen it. I have not been following PF2 very closely.

I feel as though I have virtually no idea what type of game I'm looking at or what the design goals are.

 

[Charlaquin]

I've seen a few interviews which talk about a more "cinematic" style.

However, I also see rules such as damage to shields -which would imply touches of something a little more gritty.

Likewise, I see the idea of backgrounds and story being highlighted, but then the mechanics do not appear to support that very well.

If there's anything available which details encounter design, I haven't seen it. I have not been following PF2 very closely.

I feel as though I have virtually no idea what type of game I'm looking at or what the design goals are.

I see. I would say the gameplay feel they are going for is something a bit more nebulous than “cinematic” or “gritty” or “background/story focused.” The feel I think they’re going for is “like Pathfinder,” which is to say, “like 3e D&D.” Their design goals, I think, are less about changing the feel of the game, and more about making the game more approachable, without sacrificing the current gameplay feel.

“Cinematic” just sounds like a buzzword to me, I don’t really know what it means, beyond “we’re not trying to accurately simulate mideival warfare.” As for shield breakage, I don’t think grit is the reason for it. They want to give martial characters lots of buttons to push on their turn, while making different weapon styles feel distinct. Spending an action to raise your shield, and then spending a Reaction to block with it accomplishes that, and having the shield take damage both limits the frequency with which this button can be pushed, and gives a nod to the simulationism crowd that makes up a not insignificant portion of their audience.

Don’t tell the 4e haters, but shield block is secretly just an encounter power. You can really only use it once per fight reliably, maybe twice if the enemy gets a bad roll the first time. Then you put your busted shield away for the rest of the fight, fix it between encounters, and you have it to use once again in the next fight. But by framing it as something the fighter can theoretically do as often as he wants and disguising the cooldown as repairing damage to the shield, it mollifies the folks who would complain if they just limited the power to once per encounter.

 

[Argyle King]

best as I can tell....
Just a bucket of abilities to choose from. And plenty of fiddly bits so each ability has it's niche.

I see. I would say the gameplay feel they are going for is something a bit more nebulous than “cinematic” or “gritty” or “background/story focused.” The feel I think they’re going for is “like Pathfinder,” which is to say, “like 3e D&D.” Their design goals, I think, are less about changing the feel of the game, and more about making the game more approachable, without sacrificing the current gameplay feel.

“Cinematic” just sounds like a buzzword to me, I don’t really know what it means, beyond “we’re not trying to accurately simulate mideival warfare.” As for shield breakage, I don’t think grit is the reason for it. They want to give martial characters lots of buttons to push on their turn, while making different weapon styles feel distinct. Spending an action to raise your shield, and then spending a Reaction to block with it accomplishes that, and having the shield take damage both limits the frequency with which this button can be pushed, and gives a nod to the simulationism crowd that makes up a not insignificant portion of their audience.

Don’t tell the 4e haters, but shield block is secretly just an encounter power. You can really only use it once per fight reliably, maybe twice if the enemy gets a bad roll the first time. Then you put your busted shield away for the rest of the fight, fix it between encounters, and you have it to use once again in the next fight. But by framing it as something the fighter can theoretically do as often as he wants and disguising the cooldown as repairing damage to the shield, it mollifies the folks who would complain if they just limited the power to once per encounter.

I have seen a few things which look more similar to 4E than I'd expect from PF. (not saying that's either good or bad)


I'm not sure that feeling "like 3rd Edition" really helps me a whole lot either. I loved 3rd, but it wasn't always internally consistent either. I don't mind a game being flexible, but -from a storytelling and world-building point of view- a clearer idea about the general ballpark of the game would be nice.

 

[Charlaquin]

I have seen a few things which look more similar to 4E than I'd expect from PF. (not saying that's either good or bad)


I'm not sure that feeling "like 3rd Edition" really helps me a whole lot either. I loved 3rd, but it wasn't always internally consistent either. I don't mind a game being flexible, but -from a storytelling and world-building point of view- a clearer idea about the general ballpark of the game would be nice.

It is, like I said, a nebulous feeling they’re chasing. But it’s the feeling whose absence doomed 4e, and PF2 will live or die by their ability to capture it. Sorry I can’t be more specific.

 

[Argyle King]

No need to apologize. I understand exactly what you mean by a feeling.

"Feelings" are what I am trying to gather from the preview. "Feelings" are also what prompted me to try other RPGs. I'm aware it's not exactly scientific.

I suppose my current conundrum is that I'm not getting much of a "feeling" from the previews. Though, in the interest of being honest and looking inward at myself, that could likely be due to not having played a lot of PF and having moved toward non-d20 games over the past few years.

Your comments provided more insight than what I had during my original post.