Pathfinder level 20

[Aldern Foxglove]

Personally I'd say you never killed him, his soul was part of the transformation and so does not go anywhere, thus it is still in place when he is restored. In death the soul actually leaves the body and goes somewhere, in polymorph it remains as part of what was transformed into something else.

 

[Scott DeWar]

Polymorph any object .. . you are now an outhouse!

AAAAARRRRGGGHHHH! I failed my save! noooooooooooooooo!

 

[WarlockLord]

Personally I'd say you never killed him, his soul was part of the transformation and so does not go anywhere, thus it is still in place when he is restored. In death the soul actually leaves the body and goes somewhere, in polymorph it remains as part of what was transformed into something else.

I mean if you find an already dead guy and transmute dead body => living human. I think the PF rules state he'd get mental scores of 5 (corpses don't have int scores, etc) but I think that'd be pretty weird.

 

[Aldern Foxglove]

Seems like a good call to me.

Wizard: "So wait I can just cast PAO with all my spell slots until I have formed my own nation! My own army."

DM: "I suppose..."

Wizard: "Our national motto shall be..."

DM: "Duuuuuh?"

 

[fireinthedust]

Polymorph vs. Resurrection: Um, no. In this setting there is a clear afterlife where the soul goes. You couldn't bring a soul back from there because the spell only transmutes the object/subject who is present, NOT adding any additional features such as a non-present soul. Were there no souls, it could be argued; but we have clear evidence for the existence of an afterlife (potentially many afterlives).

In theory you could transform the physical remnants into something that is technically alive; but it would be a magical construct of some sort, or a new entity composed of the same matter. It would not be the original person, whose essence had gone elsewhere.

Killing: Nope. You could make them an inanimate object, like a corpse, but the soul would still be present. This is the same as if you changed them into a chair. You could then destroy said object or corpse, but that would not be part of the spell. A powerful enough dispel effect could bring above-mentioned polymorphed "corpse-object" back to their original form, which would technically be an alive person. While similar in effect, this is not a resurrection.

 

[fireinthedust]

question: is the soul an object? Oooooor a SUBJECT?

 

[Shayuri]

But you know what?

This would be an awesome way to FAKE death. The polymorphed corpse would test as a dead person to any test except one that sensed the location of the soul...of which I can't think of any offhand.

Then you just have someone dispel the spell later, when the attention's off of you. Presto! Alive again!

Play your cards right, and you can even have a different face than before. Great for BBads who need to "come back" later, or for anyone who wants to avoid paying taxes.

As for what the soul is...it depends on the spell, and on the "form" the soul is in. Generally though, a soul that's separated from a body is "dead," and would probably be an Object...untargetable by spells that only work on living subjects. But if the soul has manifested as an undead creature, like a ghost or similar, then they'd be targetable as any undead creature is. Similarly, if you voyage to the Outer Planes and encounter souls in physical form, those are creatures. But if you're in the Material Plane and trying to use Discern Location (for example) to find a soul...I'd say treat the soul as an object unless there's convincing reason otherwise.

 

[WarlockLord]

So then how does this work with create greater undead? If I understand correctly, incoporeal undead are basically souls twisted into undead weapons. So could we raise a polymorphed corpse's soul then? Only test I can think of that would work, other than maybe trying a soul bind and noting the success.

 

[Shayuri]

Once a soul has been made into an undead creature, it becomes a creature not an object.

You wouldn't be able to use Create Undead on a person polymorphed into a corpse because it's (technically, by game mechanical terms) not actually dead. Just transformed to appear dead.

 

[Scott DeWar]

But you know what?

This would be an awesome way to FAKE death. The polymorphed corpse would test as a dead person to any test except one that sensed the location of the soul...of which I can't think of any offhand. [snip]

This might have happened, I am not admitting any thing here. In a certain city in our table top game, there might have been a couple of halflings who might have had somewhat larcenous tendencies. If they did indeed exist, then the city thieves guild would have been interested in them. Should one of them have needed to disappear, one just might have had a dead pig polymorphed into

Spoiler

Dallik Turnwater

whereupon said dead pig might possibly be mistakened for

Spoiler

Dallik Turnwater

, but dead. The other Halfling, possibly one

Spoiler

Fred Jollypipe

, and with otherworldly skills of the mind (allegedly) might have used said skills to remove oneself from the notice of the guild using a polymorph like ability.

In theory, from A d and d 2nd ed. now the fact that

Spoiler

Dallik Turnwater

and

Spoiler

Fred Jollypipe

are missing and presumed dead, is purely a coincidence.