D&D General Payn's Ponderings: The Fighter's identity; or, what's left after the combat pillar?

[Fanaelialae]

Maybe, similar to the Warlock (Patron and Pact Boon), the Fighter could essentially get two subclasses. The second might be chosen at a later level, not unlike the Paragon Paths of 4e. This higher level subclass could supplement the fighter's capabilities. You might have a Mercenary Captain path that commands followers, a Legacy Wielder that gets a weapon of legacy that improves as they level, or a Heavenly Scion that unlocks the power in their blood from a divine lineage. These might have some combat abilities, but would ideally be focused on expanding the fighter's utility. Barbarians might also get similar options (or even reuse the same subclasses, to save on design space).

This would allow a range of options, from the mundane to the supernatural, which could cater to a broader range of preferences.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

A few aspects that would be useful in the non-combat pillar that I would associate with Fighters:
Teamwork: Matching an allies movements and rhythm or directing and exhorting efforts from a larger group. Co-ordination with others , whether fighting or working could be something that Fighters train in extensively.

Focused effort: It doesn't have the duration of the barbarian's Rage, or use magic like the feats the monk can achieve, but Action Surge exemplifies the burst of effort that a heroic individual can bring out from deep inside them when the chips are down. The hysterical strength to flip a car off an injured person, smash a barred door, or drive a spear into solid rock to use as a handhold could be similar manifestations.

Tools use: The same depth of training that let the fighter master every weapon might also manifest in the use of tools. Not just proficiency, but also innovative and improvised use.

 

[payn]

A few aspects that would be useful in the non-combat pillar that I would associate with Fighters:
Teamwork: Matching an allies movements and rhythm or directing and exhorting efforts from a larger group. Co-ordination with others , whether fighting or working could be something that Fighters train in extensively.

Focused effort: It doesn't have the duration of the barbarian's Rage, or use magic like the feats the monk can achieve, but Action Surge exemplifies the burst of effort that a heroic individual can bring out from deep inside them when the chips are down. The hysterical strength to flip a car off an injured person, smash a barred door, or drive a spear into solid rock to use as a handhold could be similar manifestations.

Tools use: The same depth of training that let the fighter master every weapon might also manifest in the use of tools. Not just proficiency, but also innovative and improvised use.

Now were talkin! I especially like the tool use. Makes sense in a way that fits a fighter.

 

[ART!]

The paladin (whether you see them as holy knights of goodness or just armored dudes with magic) often are granted bonuses against mind effects, ability to detect evil, auras to protect their allies, etc... They are granted abilities that lean into the social pillar of play. The ranger has traditionally been given class abilities that focus on living in nature, tracking, and wild empathy. These all lead to being good in the exploration pillar. Fighters? I am having trouble thinking of a single class feature not focused solely on combat. In past editions, fighters eventually become squires and knights and leaders of people. That idea has almost entirely been abandoned in modern D&D.

All balancing of versatility aside, the glaring problem I can see is the fighter class. Casters have variety in type and choice of features. Skill classes have a mix of class identity and utility choice. Martials are often tied heavily to class features. The fighter is in desperate need of some of everything. Where to start? How about with class features? What can you imagine as being the role a fighter plays in every pillar? Solider or Mercenary backgrounds? Weapon skills to accomplish more than killing? Leader type ability that leads to assistance and bonus for their partners? What is the fighter identity; or what could it be?

I've been thinking about this sort of thing a lot lately, in part because of how Level Up expands the exploration and social pillars, so thanks for starting this thread.

One way to think about this might be to think about action heroes in film and tv and what abilities they tend to have in common.

So, in very general terms, a fighter should:

• come across as someone who's not to be messed with, physically; even when not actively trying to intimidate, they have the bearing of someone who could be trouble in a fight.
• be hard to intimidate.
• be good at using their environment in a fight, or to prevent a fight; this could include flashy swashbuckling things, but also just basic taking advantage of the physical space and nearby objects.
• be good at tactics, and maybe even long-term strategy
• be able to assess the combat capabilities of opponents
• be able to assess the quality of weapons, armor, and other fighting gear
• be able to know when a fight is about to happen
• know how to prevent a fight

A relatively simple option with plenty of precedent would be giving the fighter followers.

I think one of the big reasons it fell out of favor was because it was a pain to manage. You had to build a keep, and then pay your followers and maintain morale lest they leave/betray you. Ever seen a wizard have to maintain the morale of their spells? Nope. For players who didn't enjoy that kind of domain management, it was a nuisance, potentially more of a hassle than a benefit.

The solution? Make the followers self-sufficient (a seasoned mercenary company whose loyalty is born out of respect). They don't require upkeep, but rather are purely beneficial. They could scout areas for the fighter, deliver messages/act as translators, and maybe even take on low level adventures in the fighter's stead. The feature could detail a few concrete uses for the followers, while leaving it open for the DM to permit more creative uses as well.

The sidekick rules get us partway there, but it probably wouldn't take much to expand that into rules for groups of "sidekicks".

I would love a way for a martial class to get things like "jump" "Knock" "Arcane lock"

x times can jump 3x distance
kick in a door auto break into a door even if arcane locked but makes a ton of noise
block/break a door so it is not openable without an ability

also things kinda like alarm...
when you rest you have a 6th sense are become alert as soon as anything dangerous comes within 20ft even if it is invisible or intangible.

give them an auto go up sheer surfaces (like spider climb)

give them some cool combat things too... death blow (save or die) knee cap (slow)

Many have argued that all fighters (and even other classes) should have access to maneuvers, and I agree.

 

[Guest 7034872]

Tools use: The same depth of training that let the fighter master every weapon might also manifest in the use of tools. Not just proficiency, but also innovative and improvised use.

This makes eminent sense to me.

Suppose we have a veteran fighter who across his life has been in as many battles as you and I have lines for coffee: we're supposed to believe this chap has no idea how to repair his own weapons and armor??? Metalsmithing is just completely foreign to this guy, is it?? I have trouble believing that.

 

[Fanaelialae]

The sidekick rules get us partway there, but it probably wouldn't take much to expand that into rules for groups of "sidekicks".

It's not a bad idea, as it isn't unreasonable that some fighters might want to bring their mercs along on adventures. However, the original idea was more utility oriented. As in, you never even need to even stat them up, and the mercs are nonetheless useful. The reason is that not everyone would necessarily want to have to run multiple characters.

 

[FrogReaver]

maybe fighters should get abilities around knowledge of enemy tactics, what causes them to flee, typical enemy reactions to specific circumstances. Etc.

Maybe Make that a skill and give fighters expertise in it.

 

[FrogReaver]

In terms of social the only real fix is to either have magic, be able to primary charisma, or gain boosts to social skills like expertise or bardic inspiration. I think the Tasha’s Battlemaster manuevers have really helped there. For the generic fighter you might could add a single superiority dice and give them those skill boosting manuevers.

 

[Yaarel]

The main concept split within the Fighter is between a knight and a skirmisher. The knight (heavy infantry) tends toward social (and aristocracy). The skirmisher (light infantry) tends toward exploration (and athletics).

The Paladin and Ranger were - and in some sense still are - gishy Fighter subclasses for these two concepts.

By the way, the "exploration pillar" is when the DM describes where the players are (sights, sounds, smells) and asks what they want to do.

Re tactics and teamwork. Maybe something like granting a +1 x the number of team members to each member, up to a number equal to the Intelligence bonus. In other words, a mass help to skill checks and similar.

 

[FrogReaver]

One thing I think fighters should really have IMO is when they take an ASI they get an additional +1 that can’t be placed in the same stat they’ve already chosen. (Maybe exclude con).

This could help bring a fighter up to competence of caster classes in int/cha/wis skills Or alternatively it would help the str+dex fighter concepts.