PC Defenses fix.

[Bayuer]

We all looking now to Expertise. What with feats that gives PC bonuses to defences. In PHB 2 on epic level you can add +4 to single defence. All my players alwats takes Iron Will, Lighting Reflex, Great Fortitude anyway, couse defenses compared to moster attacks are just too low.

So. This is my solution. Every PC gains +2 to all defenses (not AC) per tier and we ban those feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lighting Reflex, Epic Reflex, Epic Fortitude, Epic Will.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

We all looking now to Expertise. What with feats that gives PC bonuses to defences. In PHB 2 on epic level you can add +4 to single defence. All my players alwats takes Iron Will, Lighting Reflex, Great Fortitude anyway, couse defenses compared to moster attacks are just too low.

So. This is my solution. Every PC gains +2 to all defenses (not AC) per tier and we ban those feats: Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lighting Reflex, Epic Reflex, Epic Fortitude, Epic Will.

Didn't know about those epic feats, but can't say I'm surprised. I think you're headed in the right direction with your HR, but it could use some refinement.

 

[keterys]

I was considering something a little more wacky like

Each defense is tied to an item slot -
Waist = Fortitude
Head = Will
Feet = Reflexes

No matter what else the item does, it also gives +1 item bonus to the defense per tier (+1 at Heroic, +2 at Paragon, +3 at Epic)

So, Acrobat Boots also give +1 item bonus to Reflexes, an Epic Belt of Vigor also gives +3 item bonus to Fortitude, and a Crown of Command gives a +2 item bonus to Will.

Makes people appreciate getting those items just a little bit more, and catches up the difference at the same time.

 

[Garthanos]

Didn't know about those epic feats, but can't say I'm surprised. I think you're headed in the right direction with your HR, but it could use some refinement.

The house rule could be called the Heroic Defense, house rule.

 

[Bayuer]

I was looking at attack bonus of monster when they hitting defenses other than AC and they have +5/+6 at lvl 2-3. Comparing it to the PC defenses they ususally have one very high defense (linked to attacking atribtute) one medium and one lowe (or to medium). This will 14 for high, and 12 for the seconds. You gain +2 or two +1 defenses from class (or +1 to all for human, or paladin). That gives you max 16 in primary defense, the other are unchanged. There, are some variations here but anyway your max defense will be 16 and other lover. That's not good. Your boostet defense gives you a 50% chance of being hit. So this +2 boost is needed.

On paragon the things goes even wors. I was in situations when monster neede to roll 3+ on dice to hit PCs. That's why everybody takes paragon defenses feats. On epic things are almost the same. So why lose feats slots for must have feats. That's my philosophy here.

 

[Bayuer]

I was considering something a little more wacky like

Each defense is tied to an item slot -
Waist = Fortitude
Head = Will
Feet = Reflexes

No matter what else the item does, it also gives +1 item bonus to the defense per tier (+1 at Heroic, +2 at Paragon, +3 at Epic)

So, Acrobat Boots also give +1 item bonus to Reflexes, an Epic Belt of Vigor also gives +3 item bonus to Fortitude, and a Crown of Command gives a +2 item bonus to Will.

Makes people appreciate getting those items just a little bit more, and catches up the difference at the same time.

Thats nice house rule. But I think the bonuses are too low.

 

[keterys]

Well, let's see... monster attacks rise by 29 from to 1 to 30, and players get 15 from level, 6 from item, leaving 8.

An ability score that gets full investment would regain about 4. One with none would regain 0.

So, 4 to 8 lost. I'm not that worried about the 8 case, but sure, probably want to regain more than +3 if you want to address it completely _and_ remove the feat options. I guess +2/+4/+6 would work in that instance, or giving a +1 to +6 spread just like neck items. Not sure how I feel on removing the feat options.

 

[Bayuer]

Actually stat bonus increase too. To +6 in most cases. So that gives us gap of +2/+6 in high ability score and low ability score (or none). At this point we must see if adding +2 per tier isn't too much.

Let's see how it look on 25 lvl.
Monster attack vs. other defenses is +28/27.
Pc higher defense would be around 35 (10 base, 12 level, 7 atribute (or 8 with demigod or 20 in the stat at 1lvl) and max +2 form class (bet lets take 1) and 5 magic). The best configuration gives us 37 (without any feats taken so far). So thats 65/60% chance of hitting you in your best defense! There must be something wrong here.

Lets consider now the lowest defense. It will be around 31 (10 base, 12 level, 5 magic, 4 atribute (in most cases it will be 3,4, lets take higher value). The monster have hitting chance of 90/85% to that defense. Rolling 3 on die...

When we add +6 at epic this will change to 35/30% hit chance into your primary defense or to 60/55% into your lowest defence. I don't know now if this isn't to much. Mabye adding +1 per tier will be better idea. This will give us a 50/45% hit chance and 75/70%. And I don't know if thats still not to much in lover defense.

So maybe the changes should go to +2 on paragon and +4 on epic?
45%/40% hitting chance on higher defense and 70%/65% on lovest defence?

The feats I mentioned before will still be banned from play, well maybe only the epic feats giving +4 to single stat. Iron Will, Lighting Reflex, Great Fortitude will be still an option. But there are still some feats to take. One on paragon that gives +1 feat bonus to all defences and on epic there will be feats giving you +2 feat bonus to single defence and some other bonus.

In current form you must spend for sure 3/4 feats to get 55/55% hit chance from monsters so that is paintfull and this shouldn't be feats issue to make you char average.

I will vote that +6 bonus. If you have build prefering high will you will feel it. The lovest defence will be hit offten but no radiculus 3 on a die hit.

 

[keterys]

Actually stat bonus increase too. To +6 in most cases. So that gives us gap of +2/+6 in high ability score and low ability score (or none). At this point we must see if adding +2 per tier isn't too much.

Yeah, that's the +4 to +0 I added... 8 points in a ability score by putting in all of them (excluding demigod), or zero for none.

So, at best 25 vs. 29 (4 diff) and worst 21 vs 29 (8 diff)

I will vote that +6 bonus. If you have build prefering high will you will feel it. The lovest defence will be hit offten but no radiculus 3 on a die hit.

Fair - I'd prefer if the feats were not a 'everyone must have one' kinda thing. Heck, I think I'd prefer if you could only have one... so either a bonus to one defense, or a more scattered bonus to all, but not '3 feat slots are taken cause you desperately want +4 to all defenses'

 

[Bayuer]

All this feats give you feat bonus to stat. So you can only add +2 to all you defenses and that'a all. If player want to take all 3 feats why not. They have now choice

PS. I will make this changes based on levels. +2 on lvl5, +4 onlvl15 and +6 on lvl25.