PC Encounter vs. Evil PC's XP?

[gausse]

So if I build some bad guys using the PC rules, like a 1st level dwarf ranger, what XP would I use for building encounters.

First thought is 4 PC's should be a even match for 4 PC's, so that would be something like 100 xp each? I also considered calling them elite (150xp) based on Basic Dwarf + class template rule. Problem is there is no level 1 dwarf in the MM.

One problem with the monster manual is not having Level 1 monsters for the basic races like orcs, hobgoblins, gnolls, gnomes, etc. Think that's pretty lame. It would be easier to add templates and advance from there, harder to back a level 4 monster to level 1.

 

[jasonbostwick]

If you want them to fight an entire evil party, you probably won't want to use Elite monsters. which are worth 200XP at Level 1.

Instead of using the class templates, you can build the evil PCs using the Monster creation rules [DMG 184], and give them a few powers representative of their 'class'. All you need to give it the feel of a dwarf is +5 against Poison and "Stand Your Ground".

It isn't really any more difficult to decrease the level of a monster; if you want some good pre-generated 'PCs as Monsters' to use, check Siege of Bordrin's Watch in Dungeon 157 on Page 24-25 for the Freeriders. They're at Level 3, but its easy to whack them down to Level 1.

 

[Turtlejay]

Or use the rules for creating NPC's in the DMG. Since you said you are building them for encounters this works great as they don't need to be fully statted up for combat. As far as I remember, building them as NPC's makes them a monster of their class level, so you could have a party of anti-PC's fighting them one on one no problem.

Jay

 

[Wepwawet]

Check this post

This post in another thread explains really well the diferences between creating NPCs as PCs or with the rules in the DMG

 

[Jhaelen]

So if I build some bad guys using the PC rules, like a 1st level dwarf ranger, what XP would I use for building encounters.

Why would you want to? What's wrong with the noc rules in the DMG? I'd only ever have pc's fight pcs if both parties were controlled by players.

First thought is 4 PC's should be a even match for 4 PC's, so that would be something like 100 xp each?

That's wrong right from the start. That wasn't even true in 3E. Encountering 4 pcs of an identical level is very difficult. In 3E a party of 4 pcs encountering a single pc of their level was considered to be an even match.

One problem with the monster manual is not having Level 1 monsters for the basic races like orcs, hobgoblins, gnolls, gnomes, etc. Think that's pretty lame. It would be easier to add templates and advance from there, harder to back a level 4 monster to level 1.

Not really. Did you actually read about the different options to modify monsters in the DMG?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

"In 3E a party of 4 pcs encountering a single pc of their level was considered to be an even match."
Nit-pick, 3x considered that to be a CR-Equivilent encounter, meaning it should use up about 25% of the parties resources.

But I agree, the only reason in 4e to run PC built characters vs PC built characters is when the characters are controlled by players.

gausse, you might want to check out the Wiki pages for {here... altho it looks like it needs some fan help!}
If you get your level 1 orcs built to your satisfaction, go ahead and add them to the wiki page!

 

[Larrin]

Yeah, 4 level 1 PC's vs 4 other level 1 PC's (albeit controled by the DM) should be a 50-50 tpk, at least in ball park figures, assuming its a fight to the death. Neither side has an advantage (which normally should go to the players, else the campaign quickly grinds to a halt), assuming the DM plays them with normal tactics, so its as likely to kill your party as not, and its reasonable to assume that they'll be pretty wiped if they do survive. The DM can of course underply, unoptimize, under-equip, and it'll be alittle better. One or two DM PC monsters is much less of a problem, but i think that at the least they're elite and almost certainly 2-3 levels higher than their class level.

 

[Tale]

Yeah, 4 level 1 PC's vs 4 other level 1 PC's (albeit controled by the DM) should be a 50-50 tpk, at least in ball park figures, assuming its a fight to the death. Neither side has an advantage (which normally should go to the players, else the campaign quickly grinds to a halt), assuming the DM plays them with normal tactics, so its as likely to kill your party as not, and its reasonable to assume that they'll be pretty wiped if they do survive. The DM can of course underply, unoptimize, under-equip, and it'll be alittle better. One or two DM PC monsters is much less of a problem, but i think that at the least they're elite and almost certainly 2-3 levels higher than their class level.

The unaccounted for thing here is daily powers. PCs may have used some to get to the DMPCs or may be saving some. DMPCs have neither problem, it's nova time!