PC Survival in Star Wars

[pawsplay]

Though Stormtroopers do go down with one shot, groups of 4 or so will still threaten 1st level PCs. On saying that the low level fights we have had have emulated the movies very well.

I felt like I was in a Tarantino movie.

As a quick Scoundrel, were you shooting around corners (+5 Ref Def for cover) and ducking an weaving (+5 Ref Def for fighting defensively assuming you are trained in Acrobatics)? The result should be that stormtroopers should only hit you 1 out of every 10 or so shots. If you are caught standing in the open, it is best to do what Han does on the Death Star and run

Hey, I grabbed all the cover I could and I even kneeled!

Though a 1st level PC in SW has 3 times more HP than a D&D equivalent, weapns do 2x or 3x more damage. Add in the condition track and you find that SW PCs aren't like D20 tanks at all. Also, as you gain level your Def scores increase much more rapidly too.

I think that's exactly what I've found. And the "Palpatine versus three Jedi" discussion on the Wizards boards seems to confirm it.

 

[nerfherder]

If the PCs are so heroic, why are stormtroopers hitting them with every other shot?

You have to remember that a "hit" does not necessarily represent actual physical contact in SWSE (and D&D). It just means that the target loses hit points, and hit points represent luck, fatigue and training, as well as physical toughness. So, your character getting "hit" five times by stormtroopers just means that your character had to duck and weave and was probably exhausted by the end of the fight. Think John McClane by the end of Die Hard - cut & bruised, but still able to function ok.

 

[Nebulous]

That's right, a hit is not necessarily a "hit." It's more often than not a near miss, or whittling down your Luck until you have to use the Force to save your bacon. I don't think, from the description given from the OP, that this fight sounded strange. One PC went down, two slightly injured. Sounds like a tense battle.

 

[pawsplay]

You are both wrong, in both D&D and Star Wars. Star Wars Saga, p 146

"Hit points (sometimes abbreviated 'hp') represent two things in the game: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a graze or near miss."

Which is good, otherwise things would make no sense, such as medpacs healing "dodginess" and the fact that large, powerful creatures have more hit points than small, agile Jedi. Poison, etc.

By the rules, every hit is a hit.

 

[Nebulous]

You are both wrong, in both D&D and Star Wars. Star Wars Saga, p 146

"Hit points (sometimes abbreviated 'hp') represent two things in the game: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a graze or near miss."

Which is good, otherwise things would make no sense, such as medpacs healing "dodginess" and the fact that large, powerful creatures have more hit points than small, agile Jedi. Poison, etc.

By the rules, every hit is a hit.

From the SRD:

What Hit Points Represent: Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one.

I think "turn a serious blow into a less serious" can also mean a flat out MISS. But it still whittles off some hp. Sure, it doesn't say that, but it makes sense to me and that's how I play.

As for SWSE, how does "every hit is a hit" take into account the deeply integrated Second Wind mechanic? By definition, you're just getting a resurgence of energy, you aren't physically healing damage, yet you still regain significant hp. And there are feats to give you multiple boosts per day.

Anyway, my point is that the "five hits" in the scenario works, for me anyway, if i take into account that it's not a direct hit. If you look at it in terms of a 1st level character getting pegged 3 times and walking away unscathed, then yeah, it seems a little powerful. But again, that was deliberate by the designers.

 

[pawsplay]

From the SRD:



I think "turn a serious blow into a less serious" can also mean a flat out MISS. But it still whittles off some hp. Sure, it doesn't say that, but it makes sense to me and that's how I play.

The fact that it doesn't say that means it's not true. A miss is not a "less serious blow," it's a miss.

As for SWSE, how does "every hit is a hit" take into account the deeply integrated Second Wind mechanic? By definition, you're just getting a resurgence of energy, you aren't physically healing damage, yet you still regain significant hp. And there are feats to give you multiple boosts per day.

You rip off your shirt and keep fighting.

Anyway, my point is that the "five hits" in the scenario works, for me anyway, if i take into account that it's not a direct hit. If you look at it in terms of a 1st level character getting pegged 3 times and walking away unscathed, then yeah, it seems a little powerful. But again, that was deliberate by the designers.

It's a lot of hitting, for Star Wars.

Marksmanship in Star Wars seems vaguely realistic (i.e. there is a lot of missing), and Jedi fencing seems to involve and unrealistical amount of parrying (well unless you take into account precognition).

 

[nerfherder]

You are both wrong, in both D&D and Star Wars. Star Wars Saga, p 146

"Hit points (sometimes abbreviated 'hp') represent two things in the game: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a graze or near miss."

If you quote the rest of the paragraph you'll see that Nebulous and myself are right. Hit points have always worked this way (well, as far back as AD&D - I couldn't vouch for OD&D).

Which is good, otherwise things would make no sense, such as medpacs healing "dodginess" and the fact that large, powerful creatures have more hit points than small, agile Jedi. Poison, etc.

They have never made sense. I remember magazine articles discussing this in the 80's. Hit points are an abstraction, and it's best not to think too hard about them, otherwise all the logical inconsistencies become aparrant.

By the rules, every hit is a hit.

Nope.

 

[Nebulous]

If you quote the rest of the paragraph you'll see that Nebulous and myself are right. Hit points have always worked this way (well, as far back as AD&D - I couldn't vouch for OD&D).

They have never made sense. I remember magazine articles discussing this in the 80's. Hit points are an abstraction, and it's best not to think too hard about them, otherwise all the logical inconsistencies become aparrant.

The rest of the SW paragraph does go on to say:

As you become more experienced, you become more adept at parrying strikes, dodging attacks, and rolling with blows such that you minimize or avoid significant physical trauma, but all this effort slowly wears you down. Rather than trying to keep track of the difference between attacks and how much physical injury you take, hit points are an abstract measure of your total ability to survive damage.

I think it says it pretty clearly right there, even better than the D&D SRD does. Parrying and dodging attacks STILL wears down hit points. And the Second Wind mechanic is great addition to this abstract system i believe. This isn't a perfect way to mirror combat, we all know this, but it gives the heroes a distinct edge.

 

[Daniel D. Fox]

Remember, Star Wars Saga CL1 means it's equivilent for 4 PCs at first level. That means, a CL1 Stormtrooper should prove challenging for 4 players at 1st level.

Take a look at the errata on the WotC page; it'll go into more detail how to build fair encounters.

 

[Skywalker]

*sigh* How did I know this thread would end up reverting to the age-old HP argument.