D&D 5E People don't read the 5E DMG for a reason

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The reason: It's the weakest of the core books.

It doesn't spend a lot of time teaching how to be a DM, but instead has a bunch of world-building advice.

It has a bunch of setting information (the most planar info we've gotten in 5E to date), while trying to be a tool for every table.

It has a bunch of magic items, although it's not terribly well organized (why are the weapons mixed in with everything else -- are there DMs who are equally likely, as a rule, to toss in a +1 longsword or jug of alchemy into a treasure?) but not enough information on how they can be made or sold. (I do like the double-page spread of ways to flavor magic items; I've used that a ton.)

Spell-creation advice essentially comes down to "you'll figure it out, champ," while the monster-building and player character species-building advice feels like it was created long before the math of 5E was finalized and isn't terribly helpful.

If 5E is supposed to be someone's first RPG, or even just their first game mastering experience, the DMG isn't the book for them to start with. (Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master is better, but even that is meant for an already experienced DM looking to detox a bit.) But it should be, since it's the resource new DMs are most likely to have.

The irony is that WotC's 4E DMGs were widely respected and looked back fondly upon. Surely some of that text could have been lifted wholesale, or made the model for what to put in the 5E DMG.

Here's hoping that the 1D&D DMG is recalibrated to be more than a resource for existing DMs (honestly, it reads like a bunch of Dragon articles, rather than a cohesive work, to me), but to actually be the textbook for new ones as well.

 

[jgsugden]

While I agree that we need different material in the DMG - material that guides DMs in areas where many have weaknesses or uncertainty - I do think there is a lot of good material in the DMG that is worth reading that people ignore. I would more magic items to the PHB, I would move the planar materials and Gods to the Manual of the Planes - but there is other stuff worth keeping in the DMG that should work with training on storybuilding, encounter building, conflict resolution, and balance.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I think the game would benefit from 2 DM-focused books:

1) Stuff to throw at my players' faces: mix the MM (and a monster builder) with the encounter builder and evolving traps from Xanathar's, NPC reaction rules, puzzles, journey rules and magical terrain hazard from Tasha's and Saltmarsh.

2) The art of DMing: worldbuilding stuff, alternate rules, magic items (and a magic item builder) etc

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

While the trap-building stuff from Xanathar's isn't perfect (it's a lot of work for what you get out of it), it's so much better than what's in the 5E DMG. I agree a version of that should be in the 1D&D DMG.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Isn't that what people wanted though??

 

[Smackpixi]

I don’t think most people read the PHB or MM either. They’re all boring as pants, but useful when you want to know stuff like how Druids work or what Mind Flayers are like or what a staff of bird calls can do. Being way less essential, and pretty poorly organized, people just are less aware of what’s in there even if they own it Thereby giving the appearance of not reading it. Which they haven’t. But they didn’t read the other books either, they just appear more aware of what’s in them.

And to be fair, there’s no reason to read it, just ask what you want to know on the internet and someone will quote the relevant passage and provide some commentary on it for the privilege of also calling you an idiot for not reading the DMG. There’s a bunch of people who never tire of doing that, make use of them.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Isn't that what people wanted though??

Even if players were telling WotC that they shouldn't worry about on-boarding new DMs, WotC should have known better. The core books need to be in the business of creating new lifelong players, in addition to any other jobs they might have.

 

[AnotherGuy]

Déjà vu anyone?

 

[Stormonu]

I think the 1E DMG was better organized that the 5E version, even when part of it was off in UE.

Besides, I've read the previous 5 (includes 3E and 3.5E), how many more times should I be expected to read it?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think the 1E DMG was better organized that the 5E version, even when part of it was off in UE.

 

[pogre]

I was thinking about the DMG and the alleged DM shortage for 5e. "Alleged" not because I doubt it, but because I don't know.

What if we just get rid of the Dungeon Masters Guide? When we tell folks you need to read this book (DMG) in its entirety to run the game that seems like a barrier we can remove. Give the Main rulebook a couple of chapters on running the game, throw treasures in with the monster manual and call it good.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

What if we just get rid of the Dungeon Masters Guide? When we tell folks you need to read this book (DMG) in its entirety to run the game that seems like a barrier we can remove. Give the Main rulebook a couple of chapters on running the game, throw treasures in with the monster manual and call it good.

Castles & Crusades did this initially, although it eventually introduced a Castle Keepers Guide full of supplemental content. But all the rules for running the game were in the PHB and all the treasures were in the clearly labeled Monsters & Treasures book. It was a good model.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Déjà vu anyone?

If this is duplicative, let me know the link and I'll ask the mods to merge this thread with the original one.

 

[AnotherGuy]

If this is duplicative, let me know the link and I'll ask the mods to merge this thread with the original one.

There were a whole slew of recent threads dealing with the 5e DMG. Many great ideas were hashed backwards and forwards between posters. I would link but I'm using my phone right now as I'm not at home and my skills are pretty limited using this device.

I wouldn't worry about it though. We've been talking about alignment, xps and gygax for years. What's one more thread on the DMG.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, the 5e DMG reeks of having been written by someone who has been DMing so long it comes naturally to them, and they have no idea how to explain what they’re doing because they’re doing it all intuitively at this point.

 

[Charlaquin]

While I agree that we need different material in the DMG - material that guides DMs in areas where many have weaknesses or uncertainty - I do think there is a lot of good material in the DMG that is worth reading that people ignore. I would more magic items to the PHB, I would move the planar materials and Gods to the Manual of the Planes - but there is other stuff worth keeping in the DMG that should work with training on storybuilding, encounter building, conflict resolution, and balance.

There is a lot of really great material in the DMG. Just not material that teaches people how to DM. A lot of it is stuff that in editions past would have been good material for an Unearthed Arcana (back when that used to be a supplement book full of optional rules rather than a playtest blog).

 

[Minigiant]

I've long said there should be FIVE core books.

1. Player book
2. DM book
3. Monster book
4. Setting and Magic book
5. Equipment and Options book

I know it's more money but it would provide space for many left of things a starting, intermediate, and veteran DMs and players might need or want.

 

[Charlaquin]

Isn't that what people wanted though??

It’s probably what 5e’s target audience circa 2014 wanted. It’s not what 5e’s audience today needs.

 

[payn]

I was thinking about the DMG and the alleged DM shortage for 5e. "Alleged" not because I doubt it, but because I don't know.

What if we just get rid of the Dungeon Masters Guide? When we tell folks you need to read this book (DMG) in its entirety to run the game that seems like a barrier we can remove. Give the Main rulebook a couple of chapters on running the game, throw treasures in with the monster manual and call it good.

We covered this, its one less book to sell. While folks aint reading the DMG, they are buying it...

 

[tetrasodium]

I've long said there should be FIVE core books.

1. Player book
2. DM book
3. Monster book
4. Setting and Magic book
5. Equipment and Options book

I know it's more money but it would provide space for many left of things a starting, intermediate, and veteran DMs and players might need or want.

It's not a bad idea & not one I disagree with. Ultimately this is an area where they would benefit writing more books to incentivize their subscription thing. If the DMG got split into two or even an eventual third book that were each more heavily full of useful stuff it makes doing the read all of them subscription a better value until you pick them up one by one & by then a lot of people will find that the online tools have gained enough value to drop 5$/month or whatever*.

* or buying each of the books at once was no big cost & 5$/month is likewise a trivial amount.