People on this forum are creating confusion. Not WotC.

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So. I said it how it is.

I am still surprised how many clear statements from WotC are needed to actually get the message out.

Maybe they should just stop trying to cater to those that willfully disrupt the communication.

4e was harmed by a few people spreading anecdotes and rumors.

I am fearing that this is what is happening this time again.

5e Next was successful because they mainly ignored the internet rambling because of what happened with 4e and focussed on the gathered survey feedback.
This time I fear, they are hearing again to loud voices (as shown in the druid video they made public before the survey ended).

I am really annoyed by this. I would have liked to see the vision of the designers for 2024. Now I really fear we have to wait another 10 years.
 

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The thread where you are blaming us, and basically telling us to shut up, is a plus thread?

Yes I am sowing confusion!
I need a place to voice my opinion without people creating confusion. So this is a + thread for people who want to voice that opinion too without being shiuted down.
 

4e was harmed by being undercooked and not enough runs through a editor and some playtesting.
Was the second part of their failure. But that does not invalidate the other one.
Maybe both were interconnected. They seemed to have changed parts of their game shortly before it came out, after having it shown on some conventions.
One story I remember was the paladin marking a dragon and hiding to create permanent disadvantage or what it was called back then.
The simple elegant design was thrown out for something ugly and clunky.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
So. I said it how it is.

I am still surprised how many clear statements from WotC are needed to actually get the message out.

Maybe they should just stop trying to cater to those that willfully disrupt the communication.

4e was harmed by a few people spreading anecdotes and rumors.

I am fearing that this is what is happening this time again.

5e Next was successful because they mainly ignored the internet rambling because of what happened with 4e and focussed on the gathered survey feedback.
This time I fear, they are hearing again to loud voices (as shown in the druid video they made public before the survey ended).

I am really annoyed by this. I would have liked to see the vision of the designers for 2024. Now I really fear we have to wait another 10 years.
I'm not clear what it is you are referring to. But we're not going to run a forum where people aren't allowed to disagree with WotC (or any other company).
 


I'm not clear what it is you are referring to. But we're not going to run a forum where people aren't allowed to disagree with WotC (or any other company).
No problem. You can disagree. But I think it is less disagreeing and more blaming then to create confusion when they communicate clearly.
So. I removed the (+). Lets see what happens.
 


I'm still not clear what it is you're referring to?
Ok. I refer to the recent threads about the new Crawford Video, the 8th June statement about the game and every similar thread before. Everywhere people call the game 5.5 and so on and say WotC is creating confusion, when I see quite clear communication.
 


4e was harmed by being undercooked and not enough runs through a editor and some playtesting.
Not saying you're right or wrong, because I don't have any real opinions about 4e but it would be interesting to see q comparison for each edition of the game and how long it took to get them from concept approved by management as a product being developed to a final product that went on store shelves.
 

Oofta

Legend
My perspective on this is that 4E was pushed out before it was ready. They had an idea how to make wizards work and then due to time constraints were told to use the same pattern for all classes. Throw in a lack of playtesting. It had some interesting ideas, but I burned out on it towards the end of it's life cycle.

With 5E, they went the other direction, looked at old editions and tried to pull in things that worked while including a grab-bag of things from all previous editions including 4E. The main area where they may have misstepped is focusing too much on old school dungeons as their base assumption. But at the time, the only people around who cared enough included a fair number of old school gamers. On the other hand, I'm still happy with the game even if I think it could use a tune-up.

Now with this edition? They're listening to a lot of new voices, voices I may personally not agree with. But they at least seem to be continuing the processes that worked for 5E. Are they listening to too many blowhards (I can huff and puff as well as anyone at times) on the internet? I don't know ... it could also just be what they're seeing from the survey feedback.

My primary concern with the 2024 edition is the hard deadline. Having a deadline set before you even start a project is generally never a good idea. In any case, I'm not going to judge the stew before it's even cooked. I have no idea what parts, if any, of the 2024 edition I'm going to adopt. But even if it includes some things I disagree with, that's okay. Nothing is ever perfect, I don't see them making truly radical changes ala 4E, so I'm hopeful. Time will tell.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
Ok. I refer to the recent threads about the new Crawford Video, the 8th June statement about the game and every similar thread before. Everywhere people call the game 5.5 and so on and say WotC is creating confusion, when I see quite clear communication.
I agree with the main thrust of your argument, but I'd caution two things:

1) You're going to have to be VERY diplomatic if you want to avoid having this thread throw more fuel on the fire and cause more harm than it does good.

2) You ought to consider that while there might be some people who are knowingly trying to cause confusion, most people who are doing it are much more likely to be being STUBBORN, not malicious. (In that they legitimately found something confusing early on, and are holding onto that, in spite of it being explained). Or in other words: consider being charitable to your rivals.
 



I thought 4E was mostly harmed by not being a very good game. And I was one of those people who was looking forward to its release, but once I sat down and played it a few times I realized it wasn't the game for me.
Can we not edition war please. 4e was a very good game, just not everyone’s taste.

Personally I think 4e is a better design than 5e, but I enjoy playing 5e more. I like them both more than 1e, 2e, & 3e.

And with regard to the OP, I too think WotC has been clear and it is us fans that are creating the confusion.
 

MGibster

Legend
Can we not edition war please. 4e was a very good game, just not everyone’s taste.
Stating my opinion of 4th edition is not edition warring. I don't agree that it was a very good game and I find it laughable that anyone would say it was harmed by a few people spreading anecdotes and rumors. It's okay if you think it's a good game. But you've got to recognize that it was a contentious edition of D&D that drove many people right into the arms of Paizo.
 


4e was harmed by a few people spreading anecdotes and rumors.
4e tried to reinvent everything. If you are going to create a new edition, you keep what works and you fix what didn't work.

I did buy several 4e books. And while they were interesting at first, I just felt that 4e wasn't D&D. So when Pathfinder 1st edition debuted, I jumped ship and began collecting it's books for fun. :)
 

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