Permanency and greater magic fang

[gnfnrf]

So, with a little cleverness and a slightly generous DM, a PC can achieve the benefit of a 150,000 gp magic item for around 10,000 gp.

The downside is that, under certain specific circumstances, the whole thing might just up and go away. (Money can be spent to minimize this possibility)

This leads me to believe that one of the two prices is very very wrong, but which one is it?

Is the Amulet of Mighty Fists just way overpriced? Is the permanency solution underpriced? (almost definitely) How much do multiple natural attacks factor in?

I'm facing this situation as a DM, where a monk PC wants to buy GMF. I don't want to say yes, but I don't want to leave the AoMF as the only option. I was thinking about a middleground magic item which only affects unarmed attacks, but I can't decide how to price it.

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gnfnrf

 

[mvincent]

I'm facing this situation as a DM, where a monk PC wants to buy GMF. I don't want to say yes, but I don't want to leave the AoMF as the only option.

You could always discuss it with the player. Given the potential difficulties in procuring high level druids, your generousity isn't mandatory. Your player probably wouldn't have a problem with you limiting the Caster level (until he reaches higher levels).

Note for the OP: each casting of GMF only enhances one of the half-dragon's natural weapon's (rather than all), and these often aren't overly powerful attacks to begin with, so this would not be as powerful as a monk with GMF.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I was thinking about a middleground magic item which only affects unarmed attacks, but I can't decide how to price it.

Hmm... my suggestion would be to price it like a weapon, but, say, triple the cost.

In other words, exactly the same as an Amulet of Mighty Fists. Because that is, after all, exactly what it does.

Think of it this way. He's getting an enhancement bonus to his main weapon that can never be disarmed, never be sundered, and he never has to draw them. (And, they count as Lawful and Adamantine after a certain level.) I don't think it's wise to price it any lower than that, since really, he's getting an awesome benefit compared to Fighters and Rogues and such.

If you're worried about the idea of an amulet being old and dull, then your problem is simple! Just describe it as something else, make it a different slot, whatever. Make it a tattoo on his arms that takes up the bracer slot, but can be removed by semi-magical means. Or a headband that was worn by an ancient martial artist. Or something. Or, if your problem is wanting to be able to apply special abilities to it (such as flaming or shock or whatever), go ahead and just increase the cap on the AoMF to an effective +10, just like weapons. Just remember the triple the cost.

Is there a problem with the AoMF that I'm missing?

 

[eamon]

Is there a problem with the AoMF that I'm missing?

In my experience, merely the cost. An amulet which is triple the cost of a weapon is simply outrageous - for a monk. For a dragon, it's a different story. A monk generally doesn't need to bypass DR/magic since his fists can anyhow, so he's only buying it for improving the fist themselves. Monks aren't particularly impressing in the damage area, normally, compared to a two-handed weapon wielding fighter - and that's fine. But the pricing of the amulet makes it worse even than a two-weapon wielding fighter, and those are pretty bad, by all accounts. Generally, I let my players by a monk-specific unarmed strike amulet for 1.5 times the normal weapon enh. cost, i.e. 3 * bonus-squared. This seems to work fine.

In a practical matter, I'd definitely not let my PC's encounter a 20th-level caster-for-hire. They've never encountered anything above 12th level yet, and a 20th level caster is not something they'll find around the corner, and further, only a small fraction of the NPC's they encounter are for hire. They might eventually actually meet a 20th level NPC, but they'll need to meet hundreds until they find one that can cast permanency, greater magic fang, and isn't occupied with their own things, and is willing to pay an XP cost at the moment.

My suggestion: make the amulet of "unarmed striking" cheaper (and potentially add an interesting flavorful twist), don't let them hire a mage more than 5 levels above their own without a real in-game plot element, and if players come to rely very heavily on the non-dispellability of spells, then make sure to have a bunch of low-level clerics spamming low-level dispel magics just to be annoying. If they're 15th level, then a 10th level cleric adds little to the challenge but can be quite annoying if they're really relying too heavily on dispellable spells.

As a DM, I'm rarely too bothered with dispel magic, it's just too much hassle. But if people start casting persistant spells and buying permanencies left-right-center, then it's probably wise to sometimes - even if rarely - remind them that this isn't a great idea.

 

[mvincent]

They might eventually actually meet a 20th level NPC, but they'll need to meet hundreds until they find one that can cast permanency, greater magic fang

Note that permanency and greater magic fang would almost certainly need to be supplied by two separate spellcasters.

don't let them hire a mage more than 5 levels above their own without a real in-game plot element

That seems pretty reasonable.