permanent spell

[RObiN-HoOD]

The spell description states that, in the case of a personal spell, "You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the Permanency spell." This makes sense, since nobody else can cast a personal spell on you, and since that list of spells can only be made permanent on the caster of Permanency.

So, assuming that this is the case which one is the correct DC for dispelling a spell, that of the spell itself (of the 1st caster) or of the permanency spell (of the 2nd caster, if not the same) ???

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, assuming that this is the case which one is the correct DC for dispelling a spell, that of the spell itself (of the 1st caster) or of the permanency spell (of the 2nd caster, if not the same) ???

"Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal."

My reading of that is that the original spell is the one you're dispelling. All Permanency has done is change the duration of that spell. So you'd use the caster level of the original spell for determining the dispel DC.

That's how I'd run it.

Alternatively, you could consider that a Permanency remains as a separate effect. So, for example, a permanently (CL10) invisible (CL3) rock, subject to an area dispel, would have to check for the Permanency first, and then the Invisibility if the Permanency saved.

If the Invis is dispelled - the object becomes visible. If the Perm is dispelled, then the duration of the Invis reverts to 30 minutes. If more than 30 minutes have past since it was cast, the spell ends automatically.

That's not how I'd run it, but you could make a case for it.

-Hyp.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

"Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal."

My reading of that is that the original spell is the one you're dispelling. All Permanency has done is change the duration of that spell. So you'd use the caster level of the original spell for determining the dispel DC.

Be a little careful here. The quote about the vulnerability to dispel magic seems to be in reference to the fact that in regards to personal permanencies...

"This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of greater level than the character was when the character cast the spell."

So, if I cast a permanent darkvision on myself as a 10th level wizard, only spellcasters 11th level or up can even attempt to dispel it. If I cast it on the party's Fighter, then any spell caster can attempt to dispel it.

Personally, I'd treat the permanent spells in a manner similar to magic items. That is, the effects are suppressed for a number of rounds. Though, you're reasoning certainly makes sense, and my ruling would certainly be debatable.

I'd rule it that way, mainly because it'd kind of stink to have to burn the experience points every other week, to recast the permanencies after you've been dispelled.

Mord's Disjunction, however, would absolutely end any permanencies.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Personally, I'd treat the permanent spells in a manner similar to magic items. That is, the effects are suppressed for a number of rounds. Though, you're reasoning certainly makes sense, and my ruling would certainly be debatable.

That would be "Duration : Instantaneous". Permanency is "Duration : Permanent". If it's dispelled, it's gone.

Whether it's dispelled as a spell of the caster level of the original spell, or of the Permanency, I'm happy to debate. Whether it's dispelled temporarily or forever, I'm not

I'd rule it that way, mainly because it'd kind of stink to have to burn the experience points every other week, to recast the permanencies after you've been dispelled.

The price you pay, I'm afraid. You want non-dispellable Resistance? Make a cloak.

-Hyp.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

That would be "Duration : Instantaneous". Permanency is "Duration : Permanent". If it's dispelled, it's gone.

Good point, I misread the spell, and was under the impression that it was the former. I stand corrected.

Whether it's dispelled as a spell of the caster level of the original spell, or of the Permanency, I'm happy to debate.

Oh, no arguement there... There'd be two spells. The Permanency and whatever was made permanent. The two spells may or may not be cast at the same caster level.

Now... What if the permanent spell is a higher caster level than the Permanency spell, and therefore gets dispelled first? There's an odd arrangement. With a duration of Permanent, the Permanency spell would continue on without a spell to make permanent. Though this may seem odd and useless at first, it could actually act as a defence against having "buffing" spell dispelled, so long as the "buffing" spell was cast at a lower caster level than the Permanency spell.

 

[Darkness8Me]

Permanancy CAN be a divine spell. Check out the Time domain in the FRCS.

 

[Malin Genie]

If a permanent spell is dispelled (more than a 50% chance if a higher-level-than-you-were-then caster casts a 3rd level dispel magic at you) do you just lose the thousands of XP you invested?

Or, like other permanent magic (items) is the effect merely suppressed for 1d4+1 rounds?

 

[bret]

If a permanent spell is dispelled (more than a 50% chance if a higher-level-than-you-were-then caster casts a 3rd level dispel magic at you) do you just lose the thousands of XP you invested?

You already lost the XP, when you cast the Permanancy spell.

You would loose the spell effect that you paid all those XP for. In many ways, this makes the spell much more expensive than any magic item.

 

[kreynolds]

The way I understand permanency, the dispel check is based upon the spell that has been made permanent, not on permanency itself. That's why its easier to dispel low level permanent spells as opposed to high level permanent spells.

 

[RObiN-HoOD]

Permanancy CAN be a divine spell. Check out the Time domain in the FRCS.

But in PHB it is stated as Sor/Wiz 5 ONLY ... so how's a divine spell too? Perhaps it's a special thing for the time domain only!

Right?