permanent spell

[Hypersmurf]

Now... What if the permanent spell is a higher caster level than the Permanency spell, and therefore gets dispelled first? There's an odd arrangement. With a duration of Permanent, the Permanency spell would continue on without a spell to make permanent. Though this may seem odd and useless at first, it could actually act as a defence against having "buffing" spell dispelled, so long as the "buffing" spell was cast at a lower caster level than the Permanency spell.

Well...

If you cast Greater Magic Weapon on a sword, and then someone Disintegrates the sword, would you say that the dust that remains would be GMWd still? Or, since the dust is not a weapon and therefore an invalid target for GMW, would the spell end?

I would think that if the original spell is dispelled, then Permanency no longer has a valid target, and fails.

-Hyp.

 

[Avatar of the North]

But in PHB it is stated as Sor/Wiz 5 ONLY ... so how's a divine spell too? Perhaps it's a special thing for the time domain only!

If a spell is in a Cleric domain and a cleric has the domain he can cast it. Guess what its then a divine spell. Fire shield is the exact same way (and from the PHB). Its Wiz/sor 4, Sun 4, Fire 5. When cast by a wizard its arcane. When cast by a cleric with either fire or sun domain its divine. Cure light wounds cast by a bard is arcane, where as if a Cleric, Druid, Ranger, or Paladin casts it is divine.

 

[RObiN-HoOD]

If a spell is in a Cleric domain and a cleric has the domain he can cast it. Guess what its then a divine spell. Fire shield is the exact same way (and from the PHB). Its Wiz/sor 4, Sun 4, Fire 5. When cast by a wizard its arcane. When cast by a cleric with either fire or sun domain its divine. Cure light wounds cast by a bard is arcane, where as if a Cleric, Druid, Ranger, or Paladin casts it is divine.

Ok then ... if a cleric does not have the time domain, can he still cast it, assuming evefything else is correct, ie. caster level etc?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ok then ... if a cleric does not have the time domain, can he still cast it, assuming evefything else is correct, ie. caster level etc?

No.

A cleric can cast spells from the Cleric list, or from his own Domain lists.

Any spell a cleric casts is by definition a Divine spell, but that does not mean that a cleric can cast any Divine spell.

For example, Faerie Fire is a Druid spell, and therefore Divine, but Clerics can't cast it.

-Hyp.

 

[kreynolds]

God I love having Hyper around here. Are you sure you weren't a game designer?

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Well...

If you cast Greater Magic Weapon on a sword, and then someone Disintegrates the sword, would you say that the dust that remains would be GMWd still? Or, since the dust is not a weapon and therefore an invalid target for GMW, would the spell end?

I would think that if the original spell is dispelled, then Permanency no longer has a valid target, and fails.

It's a good point, but it doesn't seem to be quite the same situation...

Anyway, I could make the point that GMW is still enchanting a weapon, just not a very effective one...

Another consideration along the same lines is, what happens if a living target of a spell dies? Does the spell necessarily end? If your permanently enlarged wolf companion dies, does he shrink back to normal size? Or do you have to dig a bigger hole to bury him?

God I love having Hyper around here. Are you sure you weren't a game designer?

I suspect he simply reads and remembers the Rulebooks better than many people around, eh?

...one of these days I will stump him... HAH! HAH! HA HA HA HA HA!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Anyway, I could make the point that GMW is still enchanting a weapon, just not a very effective one...

Well, "weapon" is a technical term in 3E.

Another consideration along the same lines is, what happens if a living target of a spell dies? Does the spell necessarily end? If your permanently enlarged wolf companion dies, does he shrink back to normal size? Or do you have to dig a bigger hole to bury him?

Enlarge, I think would be no problem. As a better example, how about Magic Fang? It's eligible for Permanency, and its target is "Living Creature Touched". Once the wolf dies, it's no longer a living creature, so the Magic Fang no longer has a valid target. I would have no hesitation in saying that, should the wolf be returned to life, the MF would no longer be in effect.

Now, if the description of Permanency were "Target : One Spell", again I would have no hesitation. It is a little confusing in that it's described as "Target, Effect or Area : See text". It would seem logical to me that the Target of Permanency is the spell you're affecting. But it's not listed that way in the stat block, so... it's debatable.

-Hyp.

 

[RObiN-HoOD]

No.

A cleric can cast spells from the Cleric list, or from his own Domain lists.

Any spell a cleric casts is by definition a Divine spell, but that does not mean that a cleric can cast any Divine spell.

For example, Faerie Fire is a Druid spell, and therefore Divine, but Clerics can't cast it.

-Hyp.

Ok then, can a cleric cast a divine spell and then a wizard cast permanent to make it stay there forever (personal or object)?

 

[kreynolds]

That's a good question, prince. Permanency has to be researched before it can be used on another spell. So can the wizard just work with the cleric or does he have to be able to cast it himself? Oooo...the possibilities and complications are just endless!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ok then, can a cleric cast a divine spell and then a wizard cast permanent to make it stay there forever (personal or object)?

A wizard can only make a Personal spell permanent on himself, and a cleric can only cast a Personal spell on herself.

So there isn't really any way for a wizard to permanence a cleric's personal spell.

On an object - as far as I'm concerned, sure, no problem, as long as the spell is on the list of allowable spells.

Any spells not on the list must be okayed by the DM.

-Hyp.