Personal Experience

[LokiDR]

From personal experience, archers are a bit too good, but rapid shot is only part of the problem.

Playing in CotSQ, we have an archer and a TWF melee monster (literaly). The archer (a cleric) deals about the same damage as TWF character (a dragon-kin). The TWF dies on a regular basis because he is melee, but the archer is fine.

Rapid shot is amazing because of the rules behind stacking bonuses on bows. I think, if archers didn't have more bonuses than melee, the -2 would hurt a lot more. The monk flurry of blows is the worse of the three because of the sub-optimal BAB of the monk.

 

[Quinn]

I've seen cases where archers can be disgustingly powerful, but in nearly every case, the characters were taking PrC's such as Order of the Bow or Deepwood Sniper. Interestingly enough, I've heard a couple of times on this board of Elven Cleric Archers who are presented as uber-characters.

 

[Berk]

No archer can ever be uber unless someone is cheating. There are a ton of easy ways around so called "uber archers".

 

[LokiDR]

No archer can ever be uber unless someone is cheating. There are a ton of easy ways around so called "uber archers".

Cheating? Besides the DM changing the combat, why do you think archers aren't "uber"?

 

[Berk]

Cheating? Besides the DM changing the combat, why do you think archers aren't "uber"?

They are easy taken out of almost any situation. Sure they have moments they shine in, just like every other class. But other then those moments, which aren't many, they are so very easy to take out and neutralize.

 

[Quinn]

No archer can ever be uber unless someone is cheating. There are a ton of easy ways around so called "uber archers".

I wouldn't call it cheating. I just think that a lot of the more powerful abilities that Archer characters get end up coming from a mish mash of PrCs and specialty book feats.

 

[Berk]

I wouldn't call it cheating. I just think that a lot of the more powerful abilities that Archer characters get end up coming from a mish mash of PrCs and specialty book feats.

Even including all the PrC's and specialty books I find that archers are still so easy to neutralize and take out. It's just my own personal opinion that I have found to be more then true. And it is an opinion that I have gotten from experience and just plain old looking at things and watching.

 

[AuraSeer]

They are easy taken out of almost any situation. Sure they have moments they shine in, just like every other class. But other then those moments, which aren't many, they are so very easy to take out and neutralize.

Care to explain what you mean? It's not obvious to me that archers are so easy to take out. Of course they can be shut down by certain spells, but the same is true of every character type in the game.

 

[Berk]

Care to explain what you mean? It's not obvious to me that archers are so easy to take out. Of course they can be shut down by certain spells, but the same is true of every character type in the game.

There are many more factors that can be used other then just spells. Terrain, how to move, what to move with. One can use almost every possible thing in their environment, and no by environment I'm not talking trees and such I'm talkin about their surroundings and what is around them.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I think that one of the biggest factors that imbalances archers is the limited number of useful/necessary archery feats and the fact that, because of that, all of the archery prestige classes tend to have the same prerequisites.

Arcane Archer is fairly balanced. Deepwood Sniper may be balanced. Order of the Bow Initiate may be balanced. Peerless Archer might not be as unbalanced as I think it is. However, Ftr/Rgr/Wiz/Arcane Archer/Deepwood Sniper/Order of the Bow Initiate/Peerless Archer is certainly not balanced. And it's very very easy to do since the classes share most of the same prerequisites.

That, of course, doesn't tell the whole story about archers. Clerical archers can be incredibly nasty (and it's harder to shut them down by obscuring line of sight too since they can use Dispel Magic, Daylight, and True Seeing). However, melee characters optimized to the same extent as my archer cleric and with similar equipment would be even nastier. . . .