Personal Preference (P)for PHB Pronouns?

[Imruphel]

I prefer "he" because that has been the accepted standard for a long time.

Of course, I also want the books to use real English spelling instead of American English but being forced to have the books published by Mongoose or to use American English I would choose American English... I think.

Edit: And I really hope that WotC stops using the indent paragraph, left margin style. Fully blocked all the way!

 

[Wisdom Penalty]

He.

I like the idea one of you posted about throwing the Note back in that basically states, "Although we're using 'he', that doesn't mean we're trying to hurt anyone's feelings..."

But...I think gamers in general are a bit more liberal and forward-looking than society. Ergo, it's not too surprising to see a decent percentage of us want to alternate pronouns.

Just not my thing, I guess.

Thanks,
W.P.

 

[Kaffis]

Alternating is subtly distracting to me. I was taught the generic "he" and find it adequate. "One" is more than subtly distracting to me, it's blatantly awkward. I'm not adverse to the occasional oddball's attempts to mainstream s/he or what have you (and I find it infinitely preferable to he/she or she/he -- it's the addition of a single character rather than doubling the length of the pronoun), but it still stands out to me as it has yet to actually achieve "normalcy" -- though I'd rather find a more readily pronounceable (or rather, one that is differentiable from simply "she") gender neutral singular pronoun in the long run.

But now I'm digressing from the actual topic at hand, which is what I'd like to see used in the books in question. I'd feel most at home with he. I'd not fuss or roll my eyes over alternating. I'd be seriously scratching my head at the use of a generic she. I'd be annoyed at a he/she or she/he, but only kind of sigh at a s/he. I'd roll my eyes at one and/or they.

But at the end of the day, "he" is shortest, which means more space for crunchy bits and real fluff. And isn't that what matters?

 

[Crazy Jerome]

But at the end of the day, "he" is shortest, which means more space for crunchy bits and real fluff. And isn't that what matters?

I could get on board for "e". If you slur it a bit, you can even read it aloud and let the listener put in whatever he wants. We already have "I" and "A" as one letter words. "U" and "O" might be confusing in speech, but here that could be an asset.

 

[Winterthorn]

I've bunch of thoughts...

I appreciate that most of us want to see more women involved in our hobby and certainly the alternating she/he usage in 3E probably made the reading of the rules more inviting for new female players. But I also felt that the obvious alternating method (almost perfectly 50/50 from one class/prestige class to the next) was "forced" and did not flow naturally for some reason. I think if iconic character names were used more than pronouns that would look better. Indeed having an iconic male and iconic female for, say, the four most popular race/class combos (total of 8), would actually be interesting to read and may even create a more storybook feel to reading the rules.

I would go too far to suggest perhaps there should be two iconics every time an iconic is needed? If Redgar is retained as the iconic human male fighter, add Cesca as the new iconic tiefling female fighter. Cesca can serve both as combat partner, or foil, of Redgar for the purpose of explaining rules for 4E fighters. Sometimes Redgar is mentioned, other times it's Cesca. Clearly and without confusion. (In fact the rogues in 3E already are "paired": the halfling rogue Lidda and the human rogue Kerwyn - although we haven't seen much of Kerwyn have we? Lidda got all the "rogue attention" it seems.)

In lieu of using he or she without the correlation to a named iconic, I'd use the pural 'they' - even risking singular usage now and then. Most monsters can be refered to in the plural, and even the use of 'it' for singular monstrosities will work. And in the case of discussing players rather than their characters, use 'you' and the more archaic 'one', such as when advising the DM or players on how to do something at the metagame level.

Of course writing talent, knowing the audience, and context are major elements to successfully managing this issue carefully and with respect to both female and male readers. A good writer can wield this double-edged topic without injuring the innocent or themselves!

 

[Pygon]

I'm a They person myself, but it's not exactly standard grammar. I'm partial to You.

"If a fighter strikes a foe, their weapon deals damage..." - doesn't seem right

"As a fighter, if you strike a foe, your weapon deals damage..." - clunky

I found the solid use of "she" in 3e to be a little off putting, frankly. I wasn't sure about the rationale behind it.

We need to invent a new pronoun. Sh-he! Himmer!

 

[Nifft]

I found the solid use of "she" in 3e to be a little off putting, frankly. I wasn't sure about the rationale behind it.

Each example action was performed by an Iconic. Many of the Iconics were female. (Seriously, the specific one should be named early in the example action description.)

I kinda like this way of doing things. It means the artists have a better chance of depicting the scene correctly.

Cheers, -- N

 

[RFisher]

I appreciate that most of us want to see more women involved in our hobby and certainly the alternating she/he usage in 3E probably made the reading of the rules more inviting for new female players.

I suspect the intersection of "women who would enjoy D&D" & "women who pay attention to the gender-neutral usage of pronouns" is very, very small. (^_^)

 

[Cadfan]

I suspect the intersection of "women who would enjoy D&D" & "women who pay attention to the gender-neutral usage of pronouns" is very, very small. (^_^)

Ironically, the intersection between "men who enjoy D&D" and "men who get angry about gender-neutral usage of pronouns" seems surprisingly high.

Anyways, its not something anyone expects to work on a conscious level. If people reading the book are more likely to mentally envision female characters doing cool things, then the goal has been accomplished. D&D is immediately one small step further away from its old boy's club reputation.

Its much like including female character art designed to appeal to women rather than to be cheesecake for men. There aren't going to be that many women browsing through the PHB and making their decision explicitly and consciously based on the gender appeal of the female art. But it will certainly have an effect on their impression of whether D&D is a "guy thing," or not, and that will make a difference. And its trivially easy to put in decent female character art.

So why not?

Oh, right, the high intersection between male gamers and guys who think that the use of "she" is some kind of travesty.

 

[Charlequin]

Anyways, its not something anyone expects to work on a conscious level. If people reading the book are more likely to mentally envision female characters doing cool things, then the goal has been accomplished. D&D is immediately one small step further away from its old boy's club reputation.

Yup.

A lot of people mentioned that the alternating style is noticeable to you, that you read a paragraph and imagine a female paladin (or whatever). To me, this is an argument for doing it that way.

There are a lot more women gamers than some groups give credit for. (The "Future of RPGs" panel at PAX surprised everyone with how many responses "could all the women who play D&D raise their hands?" got.) Using both pronouns is a small but positive step both towards making them feel more accepted in what has historically been a "boy's club," and in getting members of that club used to the idea of female gamers. (Things like cool, non-overtly-sexualized female iconics help this a lot too, and work well with the "use the iconic character's gender in the text" method....)