[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION] - I'm only seeing fragments of this conversation, but the following quotes seem to focus on the core of it:
So in the game of godlings that Ovinomancer describes, then we might have an ocean that is known to have been only leapt once, by so-and-so the strider when in pursuit of the stolen fruit of immortality. And the difficulty would then be framed at an appropriate level for such an epic feat. And if the PC succeeds, in virtue of the player's successful check, we have a new footnote to the ancient legend.
A slightly different approach is set out in Marvel Heroic RP. Like all abilities in that system, Leaping is rated by die size which has both a mechanical meaning - ie the size of the die in the pool when the ability is used - and a fictional meaning - the in-fiction scope of the ability. Here is some of the relevant text (from p OM78):
The Hulk is statted with Leaping d10, reflecting has well-established ability to leap across the countryside at a speed comparable to a plane. This equally conveys the fact that he couldn't leap across an ocean in a single bound - that would be Leaping d12. If the Hulk's player tries to declare a leap across an ocean the GM is obviously obliged to declare that it can't be done - at least not without some sort of stunting or asset to make it possible (eg maybe he has a jet-pack to enhance his leap; and with his Godlike Durability d12 and Godlike Stamina d12 is able to endure the rigours of the resulting low-level spaceflight and atmospheric reentry).
Conversely, if we have a lake in the fiction and it's not established exactly how wide it is, and the Hulk's player declares a leap across it, then (depending on further details of context and resulting mechanical resolution process; most likely this would be to eliminate a Scene Distinction or Complication that has been established at an earlier point during play) the GM is entitled to call for a roll; and if s/he wants to emphasise how hard the lake is to jump across can add dice from the Doom Pool to the opposition dice pool. If the check fails, the GM is entitled to narrate the failure as consisting in the fact that the lake is too wide for the Hulk to cross - and if the right resources were expended could impose an appropriate comlication, like Floating in the Middle of a Lake or even Mired in Mud at the Bottom of a Lake.
A similar approach, although with less mechanical apparatus involved, could be used in an epic tier skill challenge in 4e D&D if the appropriate flavour and fictional context had been established in play.
If we turn to social resolution rather than leaping, we can still apply similar considerations. For instance, the difficulty of any check would reflect the pre-established fiction. The bonus on a check and the possible outcomes would reflect established fiction also, including the established fiction about the PC. For example, in MHRP (pp OM101, 102) we're told that:
In 4e D&D we would look to the established fiction about the PC - including from theme, paragon path and the like as well as the tiers of play and what has gone before - to work out what it makes sense to declare as an action. 5e seems to have fewer of those sorts of fiction-hooking cues - there's just a bare skill bonus built out of mechanical elements like training, expertise etc - but the GM can still set the DC as seems appropriate to what is being attempted. I see zero reason to suppose that this would lead to outcomes that are at odds with established fiction. (And of course this approach takes it as a premise that there is no secret fiction already "established" but known only to the GM, against which the action declaration will be measured before deciding whether or not to frame a check.)
Leaping is interesting, because there is an excellent RPG text - Maelstrom Storytelling (Hubris Games, 1997 I think) - that uses exactly that example. I don't have my copy ready-to-hand, but handily the relevant passage is quoted by Ron Edwards here:
A good way to run the Hubris Engine is to use "scene ideas" to convey the scene, instead of literalisms. ... focus on the intent behind the scene and not on how big or how far things might be. If the difficulty of the task at hand (such as jumping across a chasm in a cave) is explained in terms of difficulty, it doesn't matter how far across the actual chasm spans. In a movie, for instance, the camera zooms or pans to emphasize the danger or emotional reaction to the scene, and in so doing it manipulates the real distance of a chasm to suit the mood or "feel" of the moment. It is then no longer about how far across the character has to jump, but how hard the feat is for the character. ... If the players enjoy the challenge of figuring out how high and far someone can jump, they should be allowed the pleasure of doing so - as long as it doesn't interfere with the narrative flow and enjoyment of the game.
The scene should be presented therefore in terms relative to the character's abilities ... Players who want to climb onto your coffee table and jump across your living room to prove that their character could jump over the chasm have probably missed the whole point of the story.
The scene should be presented therefore in terms relative to the character's abilities ... Players who want to climb onto your coffee table and jump across your living room to prove that their character could jump over the chasm have probably missed the whole point of the story.
So in the game of godlings that Ovinomancer describes, then we might have an ocean that is known to have been only leapt once, by so-and-so the strider when in pursuit of the stolen fruit of immortality. And the difficulty would then be framed at an appropriate level for such an epic feat. And if the PC succeeds, in virtue of the player's successful check, we have a new footnote to the ancient legend.
A slightly different approach is set out in Marvel Heroic RP. Like all abilities in that system, Leaping is rated by die size which has both a mechanical meaning - ie the size of the die in the pool when the ability is used - and a fictional meaning - the in-fiction scope of the ability. Here is some of the relevant text (from p OM78):
Movement Powers (Speed/Flight/Swingline/Airwalking/Burrowing/Leaping/Swimming)
Movement power traits are usually used in action dice pools.
Movement powers confer the ability to move at greater than human speed. . . .
Other Movement powers appear in Power Sets, too. . . . [smallcaps]LEAPING[/smallcaps] describes traveling large distances with mighty bounds or spring-like steps.
Movement power traits are usually used in action dice pools.
Movement powers confer the ability to move at greater than human speed. . . .
*At [smallcaps]SPEED D6[/smallcaps], you can run as fast as the world’s fastest humans; [smallcaps]FLIGHT D6[/smallcaps] is the speed of a hawk or news chopper.
*At [smallcaps]ENHANCED SPEED D8[/smallcaps], you can run at the speed of a horse; with [smallcaps]SUBSONIC FLIGHT D8[/smallcaps], you can fly as fast as a missile or passenger airliner.
*At [smallcaps]SUPERHUMAN SPEED D10[/smallcaps], you’re faster than a bullet train; with [smallcaps]SUPERSONIC FLIGHT D10[/smallcaps], you can fly as fast as a jet fighter.
*At [smallcaps]GODLIKE SPEED D12[/smallcaps], you can travel around the world in moments; [smallcaps]SPACE FLIGHT D12[/smallcaps] permits swift interplanetary travel.
*At [smallcaps]ENHANCED SPEED D8[/smallcaps], you can run at the speed of a horse; with [smallcaps]SUBSONIC FLIGHT D8[/smallcaps], you can fly as fast as a missile or passenger airliner.
*At [smallcaps]SUPERHUMAN SPEED D10[/smallcaps], you’re faster than a bullet train; with [smallcaps]SUPERSONIC FLIGHT D10[/smallcaps], you can fly as fast as a jet fighter.
*At [smallcaps]GODLIKE SPEED D12[/smallcaps], you can travel around the world in moments; [smallcaps]SPACE FLIGHT D12[/smallcaps] permits swift interplanetary travel.
Other Movement powers appear in Power Sets, too. . . . [smallcaps]LEAPING[/smallcaps] describes traveling large distances with mighty bounds or spring-like steps.
The Hulk is statted with Leaping d10, reflecting has well-established ability to leap across the countryside at a speed comparable to a plane. This equally conveys the fact that he couldn't leap across an ocean in a single bound - that would be Leaping d12. If the Hulk's player tries to declare a leap across an ocean the GM is obviously obliged to declare that it can't be done - at least not without some sort of stunting or asset to make it possible (eg maybe he has a jet-pack to enhance his leap; and with his Godlike Durability d12 and Godlike Stamina d12 is able to endure the rigours of the resulting low-level spaceflight and atmospheric reentry).
Conversely, if we have a lake in the fiction and it's not established exactly how wide it is, and the Hulk's player declares a leap across it, then (depending on further details of context and resulting mechanical resolution process; most likely this would be to eliminate a Scene Distinction or Complication that has been established at an earlier point during play) the GM is entitled to call for a roll; and if s/he wants to emphasise how hard the lake is to jump across can add dice from the Doom Pool to the opposition dice pool. If the check fails, the GM is entitled to narrate the failure as consisting in the fact that the lake is too wide for the Hulk to cross - and if the right resources were expended could impose an appropriate comlication, like Floating in the Middle of a Lake or even Mired in Mud at the Bottom of a Lake.
A similar approach, although with less mechanical apparatus involved, could be used in an epic tier skill challenge in 4e D&D if the appropriate flavour and fictional context had been established in play.
If we turn to social resolution rather than leaping, we can still apply similar considerations. For instance, the difficulty of any check would reflect the pre-established fiction. The bonus on a check and the possible outcomes would reflect established fiction also, including the established fiction about the PC. For example, in MHRP (pp OM101, 102) we're told that:
*A Menace Expert is the equivalent of a drill sergeant at basic training or an experienced interrogator.
*A Menace Master has either a lifetime of threats behind him and the muscle to back it up, or the kind of fearful presence that makes world leaders recoil in terror. . . .
*A Psych Expert is the equivalent of a postgraduate in psychology, communication, or sociology. She’s a skilled negotiator, interviewer, or orator.
*A Psych Master understands the human mind and emotions better than most; she can reliably assess and correct many psychological or behavioral problems…or
make them worse.
*Psych stunts include hypnotic suggestion, reflective listening, calming words, or inspirational quotes.
*A Menace Master has either a lifetime of threats behind him and the muscle to back it up, or the kind of fearful presence that makes world leaders recoil in terror. . . .
*A Psych Expert is the equivalent of a postgraduate in psychology, communication, or sociology. She’s a skilled negotiator, interviewer, or orator.
*A Psych Master understands the human mind and emotions better than most; she can reliably assess and correct many psychological or behavioral problems…or
make them worse.
*Psych stunts include hypnotic suggestion, reflective listening, calming words, or inspirational quotes.
In 4e D&D we would look to the established fiction about the PC - including from theme, paragon path and the like as well as the tiers of play and what has gone before - to work out what it makes sense to declare as an action. 5e seems to have fewer of those sorts of fiction-hooking cues - there's just a bare skill bonus built out of mechanical elements like training, expertise etc - but the GM can still set the DC as seems appropriate to what is being attempted. I see zero reason to suppose that this would lead to outcomes that are at odds with established fiction. (And of course this approach takes it as a premise that there is no secret fiction already "established" but known only to the GM, against which the action declaration will be measured before deciding whether or not to frame a check.)
