Pathfinder 2E PF 2 Demo- Curiosity wins out
CapnZapp
Legend
Not sure if this a new or old thread, so I might have said this already: that Ogre encounter is pretty rough.
It's from a small scenario specifically designed to sell the game. Yet it pits the 1st level heroes against a monster who easily instagibbs any hero on a critical*. Not just "knocks unconscious" but outright kills. Regardless of that hero's precautions.
Not sure I see the wisdom in that...
*) the pregen heroes in the module itself have 15, 16, 17 or 19 hp and thus die instantly on taking as little as 30 damage. An Ogre deals (1d10+7)x2+1d10 damage on a crit, which easily amounts to more than 30 points (its maximum is 44). This doesn't only happen on rolling a natural 20 in Pathfinder 2 - anytime the Ogre beats the hero's AC by ten points or more its a critical. With a +12 attack modifier against a typical AC of 17 that happens on a roll of 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20.
I don't mind a regular game pitting a fresh set of heroes against a lethal monster. But this is specifically a demo game you run to entice new players. Not sure getting turned into bloody pulp without having done anything wrong is the best way to achieve that...
Normally a single foe two levels above yours is a reasonable challenge. A Moderate one in fact, which is nothing to concern ourselves with. But there's nothing normal about this encounter. The Ogre packs one of the most brutal level 3 criticals, and the heroes are at their most fragile at first level. I submit the dev didn't think things through here. It would have made a lot more sense to feature a fight against a River Drake or a Lion or something with a significantly lower chance of dealing ~35 damage in a single blow. Not to mention using two creatures instead of one (which would remove the instagibb risk entirely), I dunno an Orc Brute riding a Warg maybe.
It's from a small scenario specifically designed to sell the game. Yet it pits the 1st level heroes against a monster who easily instagibbs any hero on a critical*. Not just "knocks unconscious" but outright kills. Regardless of that hero's precautions.
Not sure I see the wisdom in that...
*) the pregen heroes in the module itself have 15, 16, 17 or 19 hp and thus die instantly on taking as little as 30 damage. An Ogre deals (1d10+7)x2+1d10 damage on a crit, which easily amounts to more than 30 points (its maximum is 44). This doesn't only happen on rolling a natural 20 in Pathfinder 2 - anytime the Ogre beats the hero's AC by ten points or more its a critical. With a +12 attack modifier against a typical AC of 17 that happens on a roll of 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20.
I don't mind a regular game pitting a fresh set of heroes against a lethal monster. But this is specifically a demo game you run to entice new players. Not sure getting turned into bloody pulp without having done anything wrong is the best way to achieve that...
Normally a single foe two levels above yours is a reasonable challenge. A Moderate one in fact, which is nothing to concern ourselves with. But there's nothing normal about this encounter. The Ogre packs one of the most brutal level 3 criticals, and the heroes are at their most fragile at first level. I submit the dev didn't think things through here. It would have made a lot more sense to feature a fight against a River Drake or a Lion or something with a significantly lower chance of dealing ~35 damage in a single blow. Not to mention using two creatures instead of one (which would remove the instagibb risk entirely), I dunno an Orc Brute riding a Warg maybe.
JeffB
Legend
It's an old thread, but when I went to post an update as a new post and quoting a bit from my OP, I accidentally deleted the OP. Nothing else was deleted.
And YES, it's a rough fight. That Ogre is a real mutha.
ronaldsf
Explorer
To the OP who was interested in simulated high level play, check out this guy's reports over at the Paizo forums. High level play sounds dramatic and exciting without getting as bogged down as PF1:
dave2008
Legend
interestingly, it appears no where near as deadly as low levels. Typical of D&D, but I was hoping PF2e would correct that. However, everything they fought was below their level, so things may have changed if they fought a higher level monster or two.
atanakar
Hero
Not sure I understand this exemple. Did you mean «to» dodge? In 5e you can break up movement with an attack. You can move, cast then pull back.
CapnZapp
Legend
He means that a PF2 character can potentially move three times her Speed; which is much more mobile than in most other editions. Add that few enemies have attacks of opportunity and you have a new tactic!
Move 35 ft forwards, whack, move 35 ft back - is a perfectly viable build in PF2 against monsters with Speed 30. This steals one action from the monster each round, a much bigger deal than you'd think.
In 5E you can of course also gain Speed 35. But you only get to move it once (if you also want to take a whack), which limits you to:
Move 15 ft forwards, whack, move 20 ft back - significantly less impressive, given how the monster will simply move back within melee, and whale on you just like if you didn't move at all. And likely whack you for free using an Attack of Opportunity as well.
Zapp
PS. Not talking about specialist builds here. The way Speed interacts with the Action system is a fundamental change in how PF2 works compared to most other editions of D&D games.
Green Onceler
Explorer
In PF1 you can run 4 times your speed. What makes PF2 "much more mobile"?
