D&D 5E Phandelver and Red Larch....I'm rethinking my approach to towns

[Uller]

Well, different strokes and all that - I love town encounters, and my players kind of do, too. I run a sandboxy game, too, where I always drop three hooks to the players - each one is a different adventure. The players pick which adventure they want to "bite", and I prep it. It's working pretty good so far.

I don't think you and I are all that different. What I'm talking about getting away from is the detailed map with numbered buildings each with 1-3 "named" NPCs that hold some piece of information or something else of interest to the PCs resulting in spending a session or so "exploring" the town like a dungeon crawl. Red Larch in Princes of the Apocalypse and Phandalin in Lost Mines are both like this and both have resulted in some boredom in each of the 3 times I've played them (Red Larch and Phandalin as a DM and Phandalin as a player).

What I'm looking for is how other people avoid this. I sounds like you avoid it pretty well. I like Isreth's method because it gives the players a chance to input their imagination into the town. My daughter is one of my players. She is playing a gnome arcane trickster and is constantly looking for ways to cause mischief. I often have to tone her down to avoid her taking too much spot light time from the group. This way, she can say what kind of trouble she caused and how she got out of it (or I can make her make a check and impose some consequences). If one of my players wants to scour the town for hooks, rumors or whatever, he can do that without taking three hours of table time while I struggle to make important NPCs that have one minor piece of information interesting.

 

[iserith]

However, [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION], I may switch over to something like your example, there. It strikes me as somewhat Dungeon Worldish in its approach. I approve.

But I think with isreth's approach I can make it work. If a player says "I'm going to ask around to see if there is any interesting magic items on the market here" I can allow an appropriate skill check and depending on the result and the size of the town grant them some rolls on the tables to see what is available. I'll have to think on this a bit but I think that is way better than wandering about town asking random shop keepers for "the good stuff". Same applies to information about adventure hooks...

What I'm looking for is how other people avoid this. I sounds like you avoid it pretty well. I like Isreth's method because it gives the players a chance to input their imagination into the town. My daughter is one of my players. She is playing a gnome arcane trickster and is constantly looking for ways to cause mischief. I often have to tone her down to avoid her taking too much spot light time from the group. This way, she can say what kind of trouble she caused and how she got out of it (or I can make her make a check and impose some consequences). If one of my players wants to scour the town for hooks, rumors or whatever, he can do that without taking three hours of table time while I struggle to make important NPCs that have one minor piece of information interesting.

Thanks, and please share how it worked at your table after you use it. As an aside, you can always change up the three questions as well. I sometimes do this depending on the character of the town being visited.

 

[amerigoV]

I have not formalized how I do this - but I have gotten to the point that I think of key towns and cities as a well developed NPC or a couple of NPCs in contrast. Everything should then be through of in the lens of "what would make this NPC memorable?" and build from there.

You listed Phandelver. Pretty quickly the old A-Team theme song began to run through my head as I was reading about this town. Classic small town with some real jerks running roughshod over good, hardy townsfolk. I have not run it, but if my PCs were not building a tank out of a wagon to smash into the bad guys hideout then I would consider my GMing a failure. The town is a cute, tough girl being harassed by the big jerk in the bar. If the PCs have a ounce of honor, they should be chopping at the bit to beat that jerk's butt, but something should get in the way (just like in real life you cannot just clock someone - there are social restraints). Eventually, they get the satisfaction of smashing the jerk and winning the girl.

I love Lankhmar as a fantasy city. She is clearly a lady that has been through a rough time yet continues to surprise you. She is irreverent (Street of the Gods) but yet mysterious (Plaza of Dark Delights). And she will take you for all you are worth if you are not careful (if the taxman does not get you, the Thieves Guild will). I have the old AD&D 1e Lankhmar setting and I still pull it out from time to time.

Waterdeep - I remember having the Lankhmar supplement first and we picked up Waterdeep a year or so later...it was just so bland in comparison. I never had any desire to run or be a player in a Waterdeep game because if it. Maybe that is different after all these years. But to me that old box set is an example of "doing it wrong".

I finished up a 50 Fathoms game recently (Savage Worlds -- sort of a D&D meets Pirates of the Caribbean sort of game with a cross over from our world pirates). There were three main settlements my PCs had a significant amount of interaction. Over time, it was easy to see what was the driver in each town -- one was commerce (money was king), another was Station (money did NOT buy you social status), and the other was "worth" (in the pirate town, what you accomplished meant more than money or birth). It was fun to drive those different points home - the capitalists, the princes (and their paupers), and the pirates.

In Eberron I kinda like Sharn, but if I were to pick a place to set a game it would be Stormreach. While it may not make sense logistically, Stormreach is really a condensed version of the continent of Khorvaire before the war - everyone is represented in somewhat equal proportions. That city should be alive with intrigue between the houses and the country representatives, all with a wild west frontier feel. It really does hit on the "pulp noir" design of the setting. Stormreach is a composite of Indiana Jone's lady interests - beautiful, exotic, adventurous, and usually entangled in mess of deeper import.

 

[Agamon]

Just like you don't focus on the dull parts of a walking through a dungeon, neither should you do so in civilization. Personally, I don't think of the party being in a town as "in between adventures." Then again, I don't really delineate the beginnings and endings of adventures in a campaign. Being in town is part of the "adventure", exploration and interaction are a big part of my games. But bypassing the dull stuff to get the more interesting parts is applicable to every aspect of a campaign, not just being in a town.

 

[LapBandit]

Adventure hooks that are big needs for an NPC/town/situation need to be urgent and time-sensitive, otherwise, how are they important?

For Phandalin, I doled them out one at a time:

Oh no, the Orcs at Wyvern Tor have their eye on Phandalin and we have no one to protect us from their raid!! Leave now and meet them on their way here or at their base. No time to lose!

Gundren captured? You heard he was sent to a place called Cragmaw Castle? Seek out the druid in Thundertree at all haste, who knows the Neverwinter Wood like the back of his hand. Can Gundren still be alive?!?

The dead being raised from their graves? A strange man possible responsible at Old Owl Well? This blasphemy cannot stand! Go now and return the dead to their peaceful sleep and give justice to the one responsible for their rest being tormented!

 

[Lidgar]

Cities, towns and other communities are where the high CHA PC's get to shine, so let them do so if they wish.

It can be as easy as a series of skill rolls, or a more in-depth role playing experience. Just be mindful of the other players and have them engaged in activities as well - shopping for new gear, conducting research, or just carousing.

I typically keep a quick reference table, with notes on NPC's/PC interactions and associated plot hooks.

 

[Wik]

I don't think you and I are all that different. What I'm talking about getting away from is the detailed map with numbered buildings each with 1-3 "named" NPCs that hold some piece of information or something else of interest to the PCs resulting in spending a session or so "exploring" the town like a dungeon crawl. Red Larch in Princes of the Apocalypse and Phandalin in Lost Mines are both like this and both have resulted in some boredom in each of the 3 times I've played them (Red Larch and Phandalin as a DM and Phandalin as a player).

What I'm looking for is how other people avoid this. I sounds like you avoid it pretty well. I like Isreth's method because it gives the players a chance to input their imagination into the town. My daughter is one of my players. She is playing a gnome arcane trickster and is constantly looking for ways to cause mischief. I often have to tone her down to avoid her taking too much spot light time from the group. This way, she can say what kind of trouble she caused and how she got out of it (or I can make her make a check and impose some consequences). If one of my players wants to scour the town for hooks, rumors or whatever, he can do that without taking three hours of table time while I struggle to make important NPCs that have one minor piece of information interesting.

Sure. So why not just use downtime to hand-wave over it all? Give players rumors, just like in the old 1e books? Basically how I'd do it if I were to run the adventure (though I doubt I ever will - I like my adventures shorter).

 

[Uller]

Thanks, and please share how it worked at your table after you use it. As an aside, you can always change up the three questions as well. I sometimes do this depending on the character of the town being visited.

I haven't had a chance yet to really try this out. The last time my players had their PCs go into a town, it was destroyed by cultists before they could accomplish much. But I've been thinking lately how I would run the opening of Out of the Abyss and I'm thinking that after giving the players a general description of their circumstances use [MENTION=97077]iserith[/MENTION]'s three questions (maybe modified slightly):

1. Describe the most important thing he or she is planning to do in town (downtime activities or the like).
2. Tell me of some minor trouble that the character witnessed, started, or prevented.
3. Offer something that makes the town particularly unique, interesting, or memorable.

Then play them out one by one, give others a chance to join in and such until events over take them...

 

[Rya.Reisender]

Right now I play towns as described in the Lost Mine of Phandelver module - like a western movie! I tell players what buildings they see and they can choose which one to go, then I play out a scene in that building.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I just ask players what they want to do in the town and take it from there. Sometimes they pick up rumours. Sometimes they just shop and move on. Sometimes they get ambushed by thieves. Sometimes they beat folks up.

I'm guided by the players and what they try and do. Some of my favourite adventures have been in towns. There's usually a fair bit of improv, which I like and I think 5e handles towns/improv great.