PHB 3 Feat List

[cignus_pfaccari]

Whether this extra AC for clothies stacking for avengers is "woot" or not is really a question of perspective. Myself, I said "Woot" when errata clarrified Avenger AC and it got back to striker standard. When I saw this new feat, I said "Doh!"

Well, I do play one.

But I don't really see that it's an issue, given how often my character is (a) out of healing range and (b) taking attacks from something that's kind of irritated at him, and (c) it means I'm spending a feat that could go somewhere else.

Brad

 

[Garthanos]

My original complaint with leather armor was... you either have faith in the protection of the divine or your wrap yourself up in leather and steel. not both.... it was a flavor objection.

 

[BobTheNob]

Well, I do play one.

But I don't really see that it's an issue, given how often my character is (a) out of healing range and (b) taking attacks from something that's kind of irritated at him, and (c) it means I'm spending a feat that could go somewhere else.

Brad

Well, so do I! (when Im not DM'ing)

I love my avenger and was so happy to see the end of endless threads with people going on about their avengers and having leather armor as feat #1 I never took it. I objected, from both a flavor and mechanical perspective.

I know how tough it can be keeping alive as an avenger, and I find myself out of position quite often. But my response is that its up to me as a player to judge better and pick powers that allow me to get out of trouble, at the same time as accept the flavor of the class to be a fanatic who frequently gets into danger in his religious fervor. I dont think the solution is a pre-defined cooky-cutter feat selection that allows AC that puts tanks to shame.

I in know way think Avengers need AC to be so much as 1 point higher. I bet this is clarified and plugged before release.

 

[vagabundo]

Well, so do I! (when Im not DM'ing)

I love my avenger and was so happy to see the end of endless threads with people going on about their avengers and having leather armor as feat #1 I never took it. I objected, from both a flavor and mechanical perspective.

I know how tough it can be keeping alive as an avenger, and I find myself out of position quite often. But my response is that its up to me as a player to judge better and pick powers that allow me to get out of trouble, at the same time as accept the flavor of the class to be a fanatic who frequently gets into danger in his religious fervor. I dont think the solution is a pre-defined cooky-cutter feat selection that allows AC that puts tanks to shame.

I in know way think Avengers need AC to be so much as 1 point higher. I bet this is clarified and plugged before release.

It brings up the point how balanced should everything be; should survivability be the same across classes or can some classes - for flavour or otherwise - be more of a challenge.

 

[DEFCON 1]

WBut my response is that its up to me as a player to judge better and pick powers that allow me to get out of trouble, at the same time as accept the flavor of the class to be a fanatic who frequently gets into danger in his religious fervor. I dont think the solution is a pre-defined cooky-cutter feat selection that allows AC that puts tanks to shame.

But that's the thing... you as a player still can have your Avenger be that way. Just don't take the feat. But that doesn't mean every other Avenger player should feel the same way you do about it and should be prohibited from having the feat available to them.

The problem comes when players can't help but wear their "CharOp" skullcap when building their characters, even when they desperately want to build their characters from a roleplay perspective instead. And this will be one of those times. When the player will have to force himself to say "Okay, I know this feat is out there and mechanically might better than another choice... but I'm going to just have to force myself not to take it." It's the same thing with Expertise feats and all the rest. Some people would rather the feats just not exist for anybody, just so that they don't have to have the argument between their Roleplay Scarf wearing and CharOp Skullcap wearing selves.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The avenger getting back +2 to AC is actually ok. I also think the idea of wearing leather was not that bad. It started getting ridiulous when you add a hide armor and maybe a specialization.

Also we do not know if there will be a dex based leather armor specialization feat in PHB 3, also there is a paragon feat which gives a +1 feat bonus to all defenses against close, area and ranged attacks which is also another point of AC.

IMHO the circumstance bonus idea is nice. 3.x which introduced those named bonus with the intention of not stacking them too high broke because of inconsequence and the number of bonuses. Unnamed bonuses of 4th edition limited itself too much.

another idea, instead of adding circumstance bonus is renaming most bonuses to power bonus. This way, leader can benefit from those feats very well and can give out boons to those who can´t get a bonus by exploiting a circumstance.

In this way, expertise feats are indirectly nerfed, but yet useful for a leader type character who is responsible to hit to give out better bonuses and can´t buff himself.

 

[Obryn]

Well, well, well. In the RPG.net thread, it's confirmed that the Skill Power feat gives you an extra skill power, rather than just allowing you to power-swap.

Awesome!

-O

 

[Mengu]

My problem with the +2 AC to the avenger is not so much an issue of overpoweredness, but a two-handed weapon wielding Avenger with one feat goes from AC 17 to 19. A Fighter in the same predicament with one feat, goes from AC 17 to 18 (Plate), a Swordmage goes from AC 17 to 18 (improved warding), Warden is stuck at 17, and paladin is stuck at 18.

Since the Avenger already gets typical defender level hit points, usually have high AC, Reflex, and Will, one begins to wonder why they need a defender. I'd rather they didn't have this boost, and required at least some defender protection like a melee ranger or rogue. Defenders still have something to do around an avenger, to pull enemies off them so they can get the oath bonus, but the synergy is lessoned, especially considering Avengers have good mobility to begin with, and ways of discouraging multiple enemies from engaging them.

I would have preferred a +1 AC, though in that case, it wouldn't prevent wizards and sorcerers from going up to leather.

 

[Obryn]

TRIPLE damn posted... My connection is 10 kinds of jacked up.

 

[Obryn]

TRIPLE damn posted... My connection is 10 kinds of jacked up.