PHB II: Duskblade too powerful?

[rgard]

Please read page 21 under playing a Duskblade. Here it is talking about restoring the Duskblades to their previous glory. This could take many forms which could include spells not previously known to the lists, feats developed. Anything else, who knows?

Somethings I allow as a DM, other DMs wouldn't. And the reverse. At the end of the day it is your DM's call or yours if you are the DM.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

As Klaus said - the default for any feat is that you can only take it once, unless the feat itself expressly says otherwise. That's why you get feat entries that go out of their way to say things like 'you can take this feat multiple times, but each time you take it you must apply it to a different X'.

Klaus and Sejs, what you say makes sense, however...

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place, but in the PHB's feat format (pg. 89 in mine) it only lists this next to 'Special': "Additional facts about the feat that may be helpful when you decide whether to acquire the feat."

Is there some place that actually states (DMG or FAQ maybe) that the feat is limited to a one time selection unless otherwise stated?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[wildstarsreach]

Would in anyones opinion the Extra Spell feat from Complete Arcane allow a duskblade to take an extra spell from either the class list or another list such as a wizard's/warmage ect? this would be within the feats allowance of one level lower than spells known.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Yes, it is not meant to be. Do you think that you could cast two spells in one round. He swift actions a wraithstrike, and the casts as part of a full attack through arcane channeling a second spell. No, I think not. I'll admit that the rules and opinions are against me but this from that standpoint is not as broken as stated by others.

However, I was talking to Takasi and we worked out that at 11th level where the duskblade would have this and 3 attacks, it is possible to really pervert this since the BA is full.

Power Attack +11 dam x2 for 2-handed weapon
+5 Str x1.5 (Enlarged)
+2 weapon
Holy enhancement +2d6 vs evil creatures
+1d6 elemental damage

22+6+7+4=39+2d6 for longsword enlarged = 46pts average per hit

+8 to hit with magic/weapon focus/str

With touch AC being generally low, 3 attacks at 11th level makes this likely to do on average about a 140 pts of damage.

This would be on top of any additional touch spells that were currently up and inflicted.

I hadn't thought about this and withdraw my want but it is evil in a good way

With regards to wraithstrike, this is an example of the duskblade out fighting the fighter. And it gets worse at 20th level:

PA +15/30+9 Str/Enl+Aligned weapon 2d6+magic 4+Element dam 1d6+2d6 Weap=60 points ave per hit.

That leaves +6 Str, +1 WF,+4 wepon, +5 BA is +15/+10/+5/+0. The character would probably hit with 2 hits, likely hit with a third and maybe hit with a 4th. That leaves between 120-240 per round. If hasted then that would be between 180-300 points a round. This is outfighting the fighter. A character maximized as an elderitch knight would come up between 100-200 or 150-250 if hasted. Wraith strike can be overwhelming for any DM.

This is a post that I put on a this thread http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=183988

 

[shilsen]

Would in anyones opinion the Extra Spell feat from Complete Arcane allow a duskblade to take an extra spell from either the class list or another list such as a wizard's/warmage ect? this would be within the feats allowance of one level lower than spells known.

It would allow the duskblade to learn another spell, but from the duskblade class list.

 

[Fishbone]

How is 200 damage "outfighting the fighter"? At 20th level the main fighter had damn well better be doing 50 damage a crack. At the least! And this is all with one spell that I admit is an abomination of desolation. If it is seen as problematic by you ban it or require questing and researching. Furthermore, it isn't even available to the Duskblade without some real funky end runs that only the most idiotically permissive would allow.

 

[wildstarsreach]

How is 200 damage "outfighting the fighter"? At 20th level the main fighter had damn well better be doing 50 damage a crack. At the least! And this is all with one spell that I admit is an abomination of desolation. If it is seen as problematic by you ban it or require questing and researching. Furthermore, it isn't even available to the Duskblade without some real funky end runs that only the most idiotically permissive would allow.

Our shifter Barb/Fight/Weretouch/Warshaper was doing about 200 points a round but our straight fighter decked out as good as we could do and hit was doing about 120-150 points a round. He was a human fighter. The more I think about it though it really isn't as bad if you are thinking that a fighter should be doing 50-60 points a hit. That is what my sample duskblade could do at 20th level and would then be comparable to a fighter of that level.

 

[Darklone]

Our shifter Barb/Fight/Weretouch/Warshaper was doing about 200 points a round but our straight fighter decked out as good as we could do and hit was doing about 120-150 points a round. He was a human fighter. The more I think about it though it really isn't as bad if you are thinking that a fighter should be doing 50-60 points a hit. That is what my sample duskblade could do at 20th level and would then be comparable to a fighter of that level.

Huhm. Minotaur barbarian level 13... 160 point of damage per round was not at all unlikely.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Here's what I received as a final word on Extra spell in regards to the Duskblade.

Response (Sam S.) 01/02/2007 09:22 AM
Hi again,

Forgive me for that one, as I misunderstood why you had a problem with the Duskblade taking the Extra Spell feat. The answer still stands, James. The Duskblade cannot choose spells outside their spell list. It is just the way the rules work and this ruling has been passed down by the people who make the rules.


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Customer (James Webster) 01/02/2007 09:13 AM
Your clarification was wrong. Duskblades do not know all of their spells. They can learn 1 per level and starting at 5th and every odd level relearn one in place of another one per level. Please reconsider your previous statement.
Response (Sam S.) 01/02/2007 09:07 AM
Hi again James,

The feat works the same way for all classes. It is a bad choice for classes that already know all the spells on their class spell list like Clerics, Druids, Duskblades, Beguilers, and others. Just like Martial Weapon Proficiency is a bad choice for any class that is already proficient with all martial weapons.


Take Care and Good Gaming!