PHB II: Duskblade too powerful?

[Kurotowa]

But how can you totally dismiss anecdotal evidence. It is these types of observations that start someone to question if something is wrong. Don't be so dismissive. Refute his argument with evidence please. I disagree that this class will be overpowered. But it is a respectable solid class.

My play opportunities are very limited right now, sadly, so I don't have first hand experience. But I did try to point out that the single-fight situation was optimally favorable to the Duskblade. And since there's already been a warning on the matter, let's just let that conversation drop, neh?

 

[Pielorinho]

And since there's already been a warning on the matter, let's just let that conversation drop, neh?

Excellent plan .

Daniel

 

[Eytan Bernstein]

I decided they were the "Sith" version of the Bladesingers, being more agressive than peaceful, more offensive than defensive, etc.

Hmm... I may just have to steal that idea for future FR supplements.

 

[wildstarsreach]

Those are Spell Compendium spells, and thus are not going to be on any new class list because a given supplment cannot assume that a player has access to anything but the three core books. But as with anything, a DM can simply house-rule in spells from other sources.

So far, I've seen a 5th-level and an 11th-level duskblade in one fight each. Both flat-out owned their opponents. Not even close.

One on One, this class has an advantage. That doesn't mean that this class is overpowered. Every class has those situations where they will own it.

 

[Perun]

On the whole, the Duskblade seems okay. However, their power scaling is kind of wonky. Consider a Duskblade using his best damaging channeled spell plus Blade of Blood for +3d6.

1: +4d6
5: +8d6
10: +8d6
15: +10d6
20: +13d6

Blade of Blood+Shocking Grasp offers huge damage potential to low level Duskblades that's rather out of line both compared to their later capabilities and the striking power of other characters. Of course, that's before their increased numbers of spells per day kick in, so they don't have very many shots.

I haven't seen the duskblade in game yet, but a fellow gamer of mine gets to play (or was it DM?) with another group, who are more focused on powerful characters and combat (they routinely create characters with a 40-point-buy method). One of the characters in that game is a duskblade (there's also a dread necromancer, and I forgot what the other characters are).

The duskblade (6th level now) uses that very option: shocking grasp plus blade of blood. He also combines it with true strike and Power Attack.

So it's something like this:

• 1st Round: cast true strike
• 2nd Round: cast blade of blood (swift action, with a 5 hp sacrifice), cast channeled shocking grasp, and attack with Power Attack (max. amount, for a +12 damage bonus in this case, for using a two-handed weapon) as part of the spell.

The character uses a glaive (1d10/×3) and has Str 18 (+6 two-handed damage bonus). That's 1d10 +6 (Str) +12 (Power Attack) +5d6 (shocking grasp) +3d6 (blade of blood), for an average of 51.5 points of damage. In case of a critical (and, apparently, they're really lucky with criticals) thats triple damage for the glaive and double damage from the shocking grasp (blade of blood damage does not get multiplied, since it's defined as extra damage), or (1d10+18)×3 + (5d6)×2, or 116 points of damage. The attack bonus for such attacks is +24 (+4 Str +20 true strike, no BAB -- it all went to Power Attack). [I'm not certain whether the character has a magic weapon, this is all based on a telephone discussion we had two days ago.]

A 6th-level duskblade has 6 1st-level and 2 2nd-level spells per day, plus any Int modifiers. Which means he can only use this trick two or three times per day (and can only do it every other round, because of true strike). But my friend (who is actually following these boards; hi Altalus! ) is convinced the class is overpowered exactly because of such tricks, because they can, generally, drop the BBEG with a single shot.

Even when he's out of spells, he can still attack at +10/+5 and deal 1d10+6 points of damage with each successful hit (the numbers are comparable to any other melee-warrior-type class; 18 Str and full BAB will do that )

Now, I'm convinced that the part of this perceived problem lies in the powerful characters that tend to be created with a 40 point-buy. They do scale the ELs to match the PC power-level, but that still doesn't make the characters any less powerful.

Regards.

 

[blargney the second]

I made a raptoran duskblade in the Rogues Gallery forum for someone's oneshot. The full power attack with a double damage diving charge is brutal...

 

[Maldor]

So far, I've seen a 5th-level and an 11th-level duskblade in one fight each. Both flat-out owned their opponents. Not even close.[/QUOTE]

Maybe but it's not uncommon for a PC to flat-out own their opponents nomally

PS: in less you play a bard.

 

[Felon]

But how can you totally dismiss anecdotal evidence. It is these types of observations that start someone to question if something is wrong. Don't be so dismissive. Refute his argument with evidence please.

It doesn't sound like an out-of-hand dismissal to me. An explanation was supplied as to why that particular anecdotal evidence could be considered inadequate.

A duskblade can dish out a lot of damage in certain circumstances, but that's true of many classes. Its armor restrictions and mediocre hit dice are reasonable controls. Personally, I think the class becomes very strong at 3rd level thanks to arcane channeling and shocking grasp, but tends to plateau around 8th as its damage output fails to step up commensurately.

 

[wayne62682]

Ah I see this thread has returned to life... just for the record to the Duskblade w/Glaive post, the spell damage is not multiplied on a critical hit because it becomes "extra damage dice" along the line of Sneak Attack. It's not MUCH of a difference, but still a significant one.

My experiences have been that the Duskblade is a very powerful class but not ungodly so. When I played one, I did a fair amount of damage but I also used up all my spells in about two rounds. That and the severely limited spell selection (none of the really good fighter/mage spells are made available to the Duskblade, I assume this is on purpose) make the Duskblade a good choice, but not overpowering like most people think at first glance ("It can wear armor, fight AND cast spells?! zomg that iz so br0ken!")

 

[Aaron L]

I agree. Funnily enough the Duskblade I played was in Faerun, and I was allowed to make up the class's background in FR.. I decided they were the "Sith" version of the Bladesingers, being more agressive than peaceful, more offensive than defensive, etc. It was pretty cool, but the class did get boring really fast and I replaced him with another, more interesting character.



I agree with this, too. I thought they gave a (rather weak...) explanation for it, the "Dusk" part being that swordplay and magic are supposedly "like night and day". If you ask me, I think it was because "Mageblade" was already taken and "Spellsword" is a PrC so "Spellblade" would sound too similar.

Thats exactly what I did, and I have them rely more on armor than is traditional among elves. Mithral plate specifically (the medium armored mage aility is practically spelling that one out for you) More aggressive, heavily armored elven arcane warriors.

Sun Elves to be exact, who are known for using elven plate. I picture the ancient armies of the Crown Wars to have been made up of Duskblades rather than Fighters, and pretty much most places a Fighter would be, elves use a Duskblade instead. Elven Knight = Duskblade for me.

The name is unfortunate. They could have called them Swordmages, Blademagi, Battlecasters, Tankmages, Meleemagi, Glaivemagisters, Battlemagus, etc. Lots of options. Duskblade feels like a trite copout. I just assume its a translation of an original poetic elven name, and after thinking about it in that light it makes as much sense as the name Paladin and it works for me. At one time the name had a specific meaning, but after so long it just got genericized and now it just means the class.