PHB II: Duskblade too powerful?

[RangerWickett]

With Complete Mage, you could get a Fighter 6/Wizard 14 who is capable of casting 7th level spells in light armor.

Of course, with Complete Warrior you can be a Fighter 1/Wizard 8/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 10 who is capable of casting spells in mithral armor, has a higher attack bonus, and can cast 9th level spells.

 

[Klaus]

With Unearthed Arcana and Complete Arcane you can have a Battle Sorcerer 20 that casts 9th-level spells in mithril full plate, with a BAB of +15/+10/+5 and 20d8 hit points.

 

[The Human Target]

I voted more powerful.

I had a proficient player run one in my last game from 5th to 6th level.

He was pretty rocking all things being considered.

He chose excellent times to use his abilities.

He did have good enough ability scores to really get the best from all the things the class can do, as well as using good spell combos.

Was it partially the player? Yeah.

But having messed around with the class, we both agree its pretty potent.

But I wouldn't ban it from play.

 

[Wrathamon]

it's a paper tiger... can do a lot of damage in a short time but can't take a punch. After the spell burn you are basically a warrior npc class.

Balanced.

and, not that fun to play in campaigns were there is a lot of combat and few chances to rest.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I'd say it is equal in power.

 

[SteveC]

With Unearthed Arcana and Complete Arcane you can have a Battle Sorcerer 20 that casts 9th-level spells in mithril full plate, with a BAB of +15/+10/+5 and 20d8 hit points.

I'm with Klaus, here! I've seen a battle sorcerer played to about 12th level and this is the class for a fighter/caster. Very focused due to the small number of spells, but it's just what the doctor ordered.

As far as the Duskblade goes, I think it sounds like many of them would be the same: True Strike + Power Attack is only exciting for so long. I'd like to see if a variety of different builds would be viable for this class.

--Steve

 

[Victim]

I think much of the potenial for a DB lies in using swift action spells (possibly from Quick Cast) to adapt to the situation while leaving the normal turn for attacks. The ability to drop Resist Elements, See Invis, or an instant movement spell without the normal opportunity cost seems like it would open up new avenues for tactical play. While Duskblade is a fighter/mage type, the fundamental theme of its abilities seem to involve playing with actions - attack AND cast a spell, cast a spell for free, use one of their swift action spells.

 

[Perun]

But if SG can crit, how do you determine it? Say I'm using a greatsword (19-20 threat range). If I roll a natural 19 (assuming I confirm it) then the greatsword crits but SG doesnt (as it requires a natural 20)? How about if I roll a 20; then both crit? It adds an extra layer of complexity which is why I just naturally assumed that it works the way I said.. channeling Shocking Grasp turns it into extra damage dice rather than a seperate attack so it's not multiplied on a crit anymore.

Well, like I said, I haven't seen the class in play, since it's not played in my group. But, this character uses a glaive, which threatens a critical hit on a 20, so it's not that much of a problem (since spells also threat on a 20).

I'd probably go either with your original suggestion (the "house rule"), or with the above mentioned method. While the latter might be a bit more complicated than the "regular" critical hit resolution, it's really not overly so.

Another possibility would be to just use the weapon's critical threat range. The spell is being delivered through the weapon, and it might make sence for it to score a critical whenever the weapon does (so only one check, for the weapon, and the spell crits whenever the weapon does). However, I'd be severely tempted to call this one unbalanced, as it would be unfair to the 20/×3 and 20/×4 weapons, unless you also used weapon multiplier with the spell damage, which would just be... undescribable

 

[dagger]

I'm with Klaus, here! I've seen a battle sorcerer played to about 12th level and this is the class for a fighter/caster. Very focused due to the small number of spells, but it's just what the doctor ordered.

As far as the Duskblade goes, I think it sounds like many of them would be the same: True Strike + Power Attack is only exciting for so long. I'd like to see if a variety of different builds would be viable for this class.

--Steve

Fighter 1/Wizard 8/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 10

That is still better because you are only limited by what you have in your spell book.

 

[Klaus]

Fighter 1/Wizard 8/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 10

That is still better because you are only limited by what you have in your spell book.

Not really. The BAB will be comparable (maxing out at +16/+11/+6/+1), but that build still faces a 25% arcane spell failure when donning Mithril Full Plate (while the Battle Sorcerer has no ASF in light armor, or medium armor if he takes Battle Caster). And the HD will be 1d10+8d4+1d8+10d6, whereas the Battle Sorcerer has 20d8. And your caster level will be 18, vs. the Battle Sorcerer's 20. OTOH, that build is proficient with all armor, shields and weapons.

I also like the Battle Sorcerer beacuse you can use Heritage feats to customize it.