Pineapple Express: Someone Is Wrong on the Internet?

[Umbran]

Some folks really really hate Die Hard being a Christmas movie.

Yeah, but let us be honest - serious critical analysis would not find that Die Hard fits the tropes of a Christmas movie, other than the fictional events happening at Christmas time.

They simply cant see the joy it brings to a lot of folks and just demand that their standard of a Christmas movie must be adhered to.

You do realize that you can bring joy to people without the label "Christmas movie", right? So the desire to call it a Christmas movie ought to be questioned. WHY do you want to call it that?

It seems to me that it most often gets called a Christmas movie to:

1) cynically demonstrate that if you fold, spindle, and mutilate themes, you can wedge the movie into the category, to deny that categorization has value.

2) to specifically and intentionally to cheese off folks who like Christmas movies, to get in their faces and go, "Nyah, nyah, it's a Christmas movie!".

It just feels totally out of the spirit of the season to me.

Neither of the above reasons for trying to call it a Christmas movie are in the spirit of the season, either, so...

 

[Umbran]

It is more of a Xmas movie than one of the most beloved Xmas movies, It’s a Wonderful Life. (I watch them both each year).

It would be interesting to see you argue that It's a Wonderful Life isn't an X-mas movie, given that said movie comes from a story ("The Greatest Gift," by Phillip Van Doren Stern, 1943) that is explicitly and intentionally based on Dicken's ,"A Christmas Carol."

The author initially self-published the story, and gave it out as Christmas gifts to his friends and family, even!

Oh, and by the way, the movie was initially released on December 20th, 1946. As compared to Die Hard's release in the ever-so-Christmasy... July.

 

[payn]

Yeah, but let us be honest - serious critical analysis would not find that Die Hard fits the tropes of a Christmas movie, other than the fictional events happening at Christmas time.

Thats not really different than any Christmas movie I've seen. Other than being about Santa Claus specifically maybe.

You do realize that you can bring joy to people without the label "Christmas movie", right? So the desire to call it a Christmas movie ought to be questioned. WHY do you want to call it that?

Realizing Die Hard's events happen during a Christmas party is fun and makes us think of that time a year. I watch this film with my friends and family every holiday season like we do with Christmas Vacation or Rudolph.

It seems to me that it most often gets called a Christmas movie to:

"seems"

1) cynically demonstrate that if you fold, spindle, and mutilate themes, you can wedge the movie into the category, to deny that categorization has value.

Perhaps I am a cynic, I feel like the folding, spindling, mutilating has been done well before Die Hard ever launched. I dont feel like their is a specific spirit that must be adhered to or you are not allowed to participate. Harold and Kumar Christmas special, Nitmare before Christmas, Star Wars Christmas special, etc.. Are these to be tossed out because they dont fit the criteria too?

2) to specifically and intentionally to cheese off folks who like Christmas movies, to get in their faces and go, "Nyah, nyah, it's a Christmas movie!".

Sorry, but they dont own Christmas. If I enjoy thinking of watching Die Hard as a Christmas movie every season then who are they to tell me im wrong? I dont tell them for example that Hallmark holiday films are not Christmas films. I dont say classic standards like Frosty and Its a Wonderful Life are expired and out of Christmas film expiration date.

Neither of the above reasons for trying to call it a Christmas movie are in the spirit of the season, either, so...

Thats pure assumption on to motives of folks who enjoy Die Hard as a holiday film. I dont deny there is that behavior, and agree its not in spirit. I dont, however, blanket assume everyone who does is doing it for those reasons.

 

[Willie the Duck]

It seems to me that it most often gets called a Christmas movie to:
1) cynically demonstrate that if you fold, spindle, and mutilate themes, you can wedge the movie into the category, to deny that categorization has value.
2) to specifically and intentionally to cheese off folks who like Christmas movies, to get in their faces and go, "Nyah, nyah, it's a Christmas movie!".

Honestly speaking, I think both of these pale in comparison to the amount of times it is done for the same reason people argue that huge swaths of entertainment are part of the same universe because of a string of cameo or shared fictional brands -- i.e. simple thought experiment/people fartin' around on the internet. In both situations, it doesn't really matter. And, at the end of the day, if these things are or aren't the case, it doesn't really change anything. Die Hard will show up in the action movie section of movie lists, only the people buying into the meme will watch it specifically near Christmas, and no one believes that all of Law & Order and the NBC 90s must-see sitcom lineup all took place in Tommy Westphall's head.

 

[Deset Gled]

It would be interesting to see you argue that It's a Wonderful Life isn't an X-mas movie, given that said movie comes from a story ("The Greatest Gift," by Phillip Van Doren Stern, 1943) that is explicitly and intentionally based on Dicken's ,"A Christmas Carol."

The author initially self-published the story, and gave it out as Christmas gifts to his friends and family, even!

Oh, and by the way, the movie was initially released on December 20th, 1946. As compared to Die Hard's release in the ever-so-Christmasy... July.

I know you've been on vacation for a while, but you've got the wrong thread if you want to fight that battle: Best Christmas films

Welcome back! We haven't changed.

Also, it was only a December release in order to get into the Oscars for that year. Capra and the other creators originally planned for a January release.

 

[el-remmen]

Yeah, but let us be honest - serious critical analysis would not find that Die Hard fits the tropes of a Christmas movie, other than the fictional events happening at Christmas time.

From the use of music, the family unification theme, the date it happens, to the setting (an xmas party), a christmas miracle (the vault being opened is framed - comically - as that), and so on. . . I think there is plenty that comes obvious from multiple modes of analysis.

Edit: Seriously. I do think it really is an Xmas movie. Even if none of the above were the case (which it is) the fact that it has been adopted into so many people's Xmas traditions has made it so.

 

[el-remmen]

Oh and the intentional fallacy lives on!

 

[Ryujin]

From the use of music, the family unification theme, the date it happens, to the setting (an xmas party), a christmas miracle (the vault being opened is framed - comically - as that), and so on. . . I think there is plenty that comes obvious from multiple modes of analysis.

Edit: Seriously. I do think it really is an Xmas movie. Even if none of the above were the case (which it is) the fact that it has been adopted into so many people's Xmas traditions has made it so.

On that basis "Die Harder" would be the better choice for a Christmas movie as the lighting of the jet fuel, allowing for the landing of all the circling airliners, is far more of a "Christmas Miracle" (occurring on Christmas Eve). Being able to steal from a vault doesn't really fit the paradigm.

 

[payn]

On that basis "Die Harder" would be the better choice for a Christmas movie as the lighting of the jet fuel, allowing for the landing of all the circling airliners, is far more of a "Christmas Miracle" (occurring on Christmas Eve). Being able to steal from a vault doesn't really fit the paradigm.

I think you are mixing the sequel up here?

 

[Umbran]

Thats not really different than any Christmas movie I've seen. Other than being about Santa Claus specifically maybe.

Not that I get to tell you what to do, but watching a bit more closely for the themes involved might be informative to you.

Perhaps I am a cynic, I feel like the folding, spindling, mutilating has been done well before Die Hard ever launched. I dont feel like their is a specific spirit that must be adhered to or you are not allowed to participate. Harold and Kumar Christmas special, Nitmare before Christmas, Star Wars Christmas special, etc.. Are these to be tossed out because they dont fit the criteria too?

I haven't seen Harold & Kumar, and have no desire to do so for sake of this silly argument. But The Nightmare Before Christmas, and even the poorly-executed and ham-handed Star Wars Christmas Special are thematically quite in line with being Christmas movies.

Sorry, but they dont own Christmas. If I enjoy thinking of watching Die Hard as a Christmas movie every season then who are they to tell me im wrong?

Do you acknowledge a difference between, "a movie I like to watch during the holidays," and, "a Christmas movie"? If not, we can stop right here.

Thats pure assumption on to motives of folks who enjoy Die Hard as a holiday film.

Um, no. Conclusion reached based on the empirical evidence of watching discussions on the topic for many years now. But, you know, sure, call it an assumption if you like. And throw in a, "But not all..." defense, too, while you are at it.

I dont, however, blanket assume everyone who does is doing it for those reasons.

Moral high ground achieved! You are a Better Person^(TM), as seen in stores!

Sorry, but the reaction you see to the classification isn't about you.