"Planar Handbook" - completlely useless?

[Mystery Man]

I would like to point out that the planes existed long before Planescape, and the feel back then was quite diffrent. Also, not everyone liked planescape before, not everyone liked it now. I find it interesting that everytime WotC does a planer book, people compair it to Planescape rather than say 1e Manual of the Planes, or even 1e Deities and Demigods (which had planer information, if I remember). It seems obvious to me that WotC isn't reviving Planescape, and has no plans to. The Planer Handbook, I expect, is more in the old 1e mold rather than the Planescape mode.

The Manual of the Planes 3E was more in line with the 1E version. I understand that they are not planning to revive Planescape to 3E, at least I am not privy to any inside information regarding that. What Planescape offers is flavor to an otherwise pretty plain "setting" if you will. One that you really cannot compare the manual or the planar handbook to. What makes the planar guide even more disappointing is that MotP rocked on toast, IMHO of course. It had everything whereas the planar guide is too one dimensional.

 

[kolikeos]

No DMs mean no players means no one buying they're useless books.

wizards certenly deserve that!

 

[Nisarg]

I wonder if the Planar Handbook could have ever worked for both the Planescape fan and the non-Planescape fan?

Wizards couldn't assume that everyone (or even most) of the people buying the Planar Handbook had Planescape already. It's really more "Inspired by Planescape" than anything else - and like both "I, Robot" and "Troy" that doesn't equate to much in the eyes of the fans of the original material.

Cheers!

Now here's the thing, there are some older D&D players, such as myself, who were never fans of what Planescape was all about.
In the old days, that basically meant we were out of luck if we wanted planar material from TSR.

Nowadays, people who want to run the Planar stuff with all the Planescape ambiance can still do that, and can even use some of the new material coming out.
But those who never liked Planescape have the ability to run the Planes free of all the planescapisms they dislike.

I see that, on the whole, as a vast improvement and something that offers more choice. It isn't about "screwing the Planescape fanboys", its about giving the whole body of gamers a greater choice about how they run the Planes.

Nisarg

 

[Psion]

And, of course, they also have allowed other people to produce books for D&D that do appeal to you. Beyond Countless Doorways is a perfect example of that!

They have still, to date, failed to offer up a planescape license to a third party vendor at a reasonable price. Presumably on the illbegotten notion that an OOP videogame gives the trademark some value. If they are going hang on to a property like it's worth so much they ought to develop and do something useful with it!

It's typical to blame "the suits" for this sort of mismanagement. But on this issue, I am can see how the RPG staff isn't being exactly helpful.

 

[WizarDru]

The authors then waste even more space with junk such as details on the githyanki capital city with is about fun to advanture in as Stalin's USSR.

Dungeon #100. "Lich Queen's Beloved". Fun in the Githyanki capital.

The final nail in the coffin however was the prestige classes. The faction classes are interesting but they only made classes and gave information for SOME of them. What good is SOME of them? That is what pisses me off.

I was under the impression that they represented all the factions still active after the 'Faction War', and hence the reason for the missing factions, yes?

 

[Shemeska]

I was under the impression that they represented all the factions still active after the 'Faction War', and hence the reason for the missing factions, yes?

No, and some of the ones that did get PrC's are technically no longer an organized faction. The Bleak Cabal, Dustmen, Harmonium, Sodkillers, and Sons of Mercy didn't get a PrC. And of that group, only the Sons of Mercy got so much as mentioned in the book.

They even mentioned the Bleakers in the preview for the PlHB in the interview with the designers and authors. And then bam, they don't even get into the book. I was hoping for a web enhancement with them in it, but when we got a web enhancement all we got was some more Planar touchstones so we could power up and win the game. I mean, Christ, we got 30 odd pages of them in the PlHB wasting space, we didn't need more.

 

[Staffan]

I find it interesting that everytime WotC does a planer book, people compair it to Planescape rather than say 1e Manual of the Planes

That's because a significant portion of those who are interested in adventuring on the planes are Planescape fans, and because Planescape had a very flavorful treatment of the planes. It's only natural to compare the new stuff to the best of the old stuff, after all.

 

[Incenjucar]

Someone asked what would have made the PlHB able to make PSers not unhappy:

1) Keep PS out of it. That's right. The easiest way to have made PSers not annoyed (Sad, maybe, but not annoyed) at the book would be to have left the setting the heck alone. There is no reason to shove Sigil and other PS material on to the original Greyhawk Great Wheel. They're two different cosmology sets. Keeps PSers from being insulted and makes people who don't care for Sigil happy.

2) Don't eliminate PS feel, just tuck it away. It has been officially stated that WotC wants to move away from modrons. Fine. Whatever. They could at least have officially included them in a paragraph blurb, as being busy consolodating power or whatever while the ant people run around the gears doing evil. Hell, they could have gotten ahold of one of their better artists and tried to get a version that fewer people would dub 'silly'. It also would have been obscenely easy to write "Unknown" for the Lady's stats rather than doing it in so arguably wrong a fashion. We're not supposed to know if the "Lady of Pain" is more than some old dude's illusiary non-aware guardian construct or the way his Mazer-Flayer spell is shaped. Now we have reason to believe she can give birth and be whalloped by an epic Chaos Hammer.

3) Do Planar Touchstones in a manner that doesn't make one's eyes roll out of their skull. Touchstones should be treated much like portals. If someone knows they exist, they're going to guard it and either make money off of it, use it to empower themselves, or try to keep it out of the hands of others. You also don't just have random monster encounters in a fricking city. Not even in Sigil.

4) Don't give DM-style information in a player's book. Players books should include spells, feats, skills, and classes. PrCs, Magic Items, and Sites belong in a DM book. The only book that has an excuse for ignoring this is the XPH, because it's just one single book, ever, for Psionics.

 

[Toll Carom]

I've heard that Planar Handbook is pretty bad.

It's not, actually.

There are a good number of great books for DMs from companies other than WotC.

This, however, is true.

--
CAS

 

[teitan]

That being said, the Planar Handbook is very, very dissappointing. In a book of this sort, I think WotC should compile ALL of the good old planar races: Genesai, Githyanki, Giztherai, etc. into one tome (and they don't need to keep expanding the races with new stuff). Also, if you're gonna present PrCs for the Factions, then why not present them ALL for easy and convienient reference?

Anyway, that's my small rant.

Ummm, doesn't the MM have all those guys under one cover already? i thought we liked to complain about reprinting material we already have in the core rules around here?

Jason