[Planescape] Squaring the Circle Redux - OOC (Full)

[Ferrix]

If you'd like. I will try to get something posted for your perusal by tonight.


They should have a Ref save of +8, not +9, but other than that and having one too many dogs, they're good to go.

Thanks, I'll fix the animal companions now.

 

[Thanee]

A proxy is a powerful, hand-picked servant of a deity, ...

Like Zoe? Hey, she is a favored soul.

j/k

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Re: Grizzle... adding class levels changes stats to elite array which technically is 25 point buy.

How about a half-celestial? Our halfling paladin (P&P) has such a riding dog mount and its pretty fine (and can fly). Dunno how that fits to the "Thunder Dog", tho.

 

[Thanee]

I'll find the valorous property, it's in one of those FR source books, races of faerun or something. Will figure it out when I go back home and report back on that issue.

Unapproachable East (p. 54).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ferrix]

That might work, but I wouldn't be able to have him as a cohort as his ECL even without fighter levels would turn around 12.

 

[Sephiroth no Miko]

Unapproachable East (p. 54).

Ah, sadly, that is a book I do not have. You'll have to pick something else, Ferrix.

 

[Thanee]

Shouldn't that be Riding Dog 1 Warbeast +1 Half-Celestial +4 Paladin Mount +2 = ECL 8 as base?

The extra HD from being a Paladin Mount should not figure into the ECL again, or do they?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sephiroth no Miko]

They should since they count as normal HD for all intents and purposes-- just as racial Hit Dice count in ECL determination. The +2 ECL for paladin mount is for all the special abilities and bonuses that being a special mount gets. It makes no sense that being a paladin mount only gives +2 ECL whether the paladin mount has 2 extra HD or 8 extra HD.

 

[deadestdai]

Having three proxies in the party would be... interesting, to say the least.

Speaking of threes, this party seems to be pretty determined to follow the Rule-of-Threes: three females, three males, three goods, three neutrals, three primes, three planars....

Now if we could only convince Donner to become lawful and one of the others to adopt a faction, we could have three lawfuls, three chaotics, and three factions and three non-faction members too!

Oooo.... I had almost forgotten about the whole rule of three's thing. Cool! I really need to read up some.

 

[Thanee]

They should since they count as normal HD for all intents and purposes-- just as racial Hit Dice count in ECL determination. The +2 ECL for paladin mount is for all the special abilities and bonuses that being a special mount gets. It makes no sense that being a paladin mount only gives +2 ECL whether the paladin mount has 2 extra HD or 8 extra HD.

But then, what exactly is the point of combining mount and Leadership!?

Shouldn't there be at least some advantage?
More importantly shouldn't there definitely be no disadvantage?

If a 10th level paladin has a half-celestial (+1 CR when not increasing the half-celestial abilities with the bonus HD) warbeast (+1 CR +1 HD) riding dog mount (CR 1 HD 2), which is CR 3, thus available at 7th level earlierst (flying ability), which grants it +4 HD (level+3) from being a paladin mount, to a total of 7 HD.

Now, looking at the ECL, it would be 7 (HD) +4 (half-celestial) +2 (paladin mount) = 13, thus unavailable, if combined with Leadership, yet without Leadership it would be fine!?

Well, to further complicate things, even without the bonus HD it would not work as a cohort, since it would add up to 9 still, which is one point too high, the problem from using CR in one and LA in the other.

That just can't be right! You are better off simply not using Leadership.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sephiroth no Miko]

CR and LA and ECL aren't the same thing though. You can't use one to determine the other. Usually, CR is merely used for calculating how much XP to award for the defeat of that monster. The problem is, the DMG uses CR to determine paladin mounts (IMHO, a very bad system) and ECL to determine cohort levels. And it doesn't give any guidelines on how to merge the two, other than a short paragraph on how it adds a +2 LA to the cohort's ECL. :\

Look, an 8th level paladin can have a griffon (CR 4) as a special mount and the creature would have 2 bonus HD, +4 natural armor, +1 Str, 6 Int, and a slew of special abilities. At least that's according to rules under "Unusual Mounts" (p. 204 DMG).

But a griffon cohort has a level equivalent of 10 (7HD + 3 LA), which means you have to be at least an 11th level character with a Leadership score of 14 or higher to have one... and it doesn't even have bonus HD or special abilities.

So yes, by the rules, cohort mounts are weakers than special mounts, at least from a numbers standpoint.

But what do you want me to do? I'm already giving Donner a wardog that has all the abilites of a 10th level paladin mount (as per his hound master level), plus it has 2 fighter levels on top (which a special mount can never hope to achieve). Plus, I'm willing to let it have elite stats-- better than that of an average wardog, plus it will have 16K worth of equipment as befitting a cohort. Is that not generous enough? We gotta slap a half-celestial template on it too? I'm sorry, but that's not balanced to me.