Player looking to "jazz up" character
- Thread starter kengar
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Victim
First Post
The next couple of fighter levels should be pretty useful for him. Improved Crit and Improved 2 weapon are both pretty useful.
In the future, rogue levels would prove useful. Sneak Attacks and such are one of the main ways to make 2 weapon fighting styles effective. The extra damage would nice. Plus there's evasion and uncanny dodge.
Encounters where his mixed abilities come into play will also highlight his strengths. If enemies must close from some distance, then he can fire while they move in and then melee.
In the future, rogue levels would prove useful. Sneak Attacks and such are one of the main ways to make 2 weapon fighting styles effective. The extra damage would nice. Plus there's evasion and uncanny dodge.
Encounters where his mixed abilities come into play will also highlight his strengths. If enemies must close from some distance, then he can fire while they move in and then melee.
I assume the Weapon Focus and Specialization are with the Double Bladed Sword.
What has the Barbarian and Ranger got? Hard to suggest ways to make his character more unique when we don't know what the other two are doing.
Improved Critical with a Keen enchantment on both blades could definately improve his outlook. Another thing that could do it is some Mithril Heavy Armor since he isn't required to wear light. Make him a tank that can still move.
What has the Barbarian and Ranger got? Hard to suggest ways to make his character more unique when we don't know what the other two are doing.
Improved Critical with a Keen enchantment on both blades could definately improve his outlook. Another thing that could do it is some Mithril Heavy Armor since he isn't required to wear light. Make him a tank that can still move.
As far as prestige classes go, Tempest is a little weak, so allowing it to expand to double weapons will hardly break the "balance monster's" back. Failing that, the only special abilities granted by the PrC (I'm ignoring off-hand parry for the purpose of this argument) are absolute ambidexterity and supreme two-weapon fighting (which is the same as the Epic feat Perfect 2-weapon fighting, effectively). Make absolute ambidexterity a feat available to your fighter character, and all should be well. At high levels, 8 attacks per round, without 2-weapon penalties is pretty sweet.
Spatula said:
Agreed. Sticking to fighter and taking the right feats should get him right on track. With improved critical and keen, he'll threaten 30% of the time (15-20). At least once every other rounds...
Cleave/Great Cleave are always great but the half-orc must've taken that route already...
Depending on his Charisma, he might consider leadership as well. If you allow the cohort to follow the PC on adventures, he'll get to play twice each rounds
Last edited:
I recalled Ninja Scroll as well.
Get the PC to make a solid adamentium [to prevent sundering and because it would just look cool] double sword (including haft) and enhance both blades with returning and throwing. Have the player throw the double bladed sword giving him 2 attacks (one for each blade) against any two opponents in a circular path (treating returning as a boomerang effect). This would be a house rule for sure but does not seem to mechanically different than similarly enhancing two longswords and in fact is more limiting (circular path). Alternatively, I would allow one side to be enhanced without the other side and only allowing the one side to be used for the thrown attacks (only one attack instead of two). If it were me I would take ranged shot and also put a distance enhancement (which should qualify since the weapon can now be used at range) to triple the range. Yes this is completely plagerized from Ninja Scroll but seems to be following the character's lead.
Warrior classes excel at multiclassing because of the constant BAB. See what he wants with his character concept. Suggest he pick up a level of Barbarian if it is within his character concept, or any of the appropriate PrC's (to his character concept), otherwise just stick with Fighter for the feats. If you are allowing non-standard classes, suggest the Ninja from Rokugan.
It sounds like he is the only one in the group who can wear heavy armor without penalty. Suggest/offer some really good heavy armor. With enhancements and buffs he should have the best AC in the game. With his +3 Dex, you could offer a mithril version so that he could still take advantage of his Dex bonus to armor. However, even if it is normal steel, he will still net a better AC than anyone else as the max total AC from armor and dex for all armors is 8 and platemale is 9. Another option would be to use a buckler and shield expert (not sure if he qualifies or if it is legal). Once he has the kick arse armor spike and enchant the spikes to +5 defending (the spikes are always threatening so should be able to be used defending all the time. Moreover, they serve as a very useful defense against being grappled (where this character would seem to lose all of his power).
I would second the TWF feat chains as well as improved critical. In fact, I should have said to get each side enchanted with keen as well. That is a must.
He has rapid fire but is not in a position to readily receive quickdraw (if his next two feats are ITWF and IC). Get a glove storing or Haversack to retrieve missile weapons as a free action (if he wants to full attack while missile attacking). IDHMBWM so it may be the case that returning is a free action in which case by the rules he could just throw his sword with all of the iterive attacks. But, I like my description better
.
Have him take full advantage of his greater number of attacks. A often overlooked ability is to use rapid shot in conjunction with TWF. He will take a -4 to all attacks so it is not for every situation, but in the cases where he is fairly sure he will hit, it is really useful. He can take his full number of attacks with his double sword in melee then take a five foot step back and throw his sword - a pretty nice combo if you asked me.
Another often overlooked combo is to bullrush opponents through threatened areas of your companions. If your PC is interested in more of a team effort, pick up IBR. This in conjunction with Dodge and Mobility (yes this would not be until 12th level for all 3 additional feats) can be quite nasty, ESPECIALLY with a rogue in the party. Moreover, the party could learn to incorporate this tactic as a matter of routine with T'sai, finishing off the wounded opponent once he has been pushed through the meatgrinder so to speak.
If your campaign is conducive to grappling monsters see the above recommendation as well as recommend CQC.
If you do not have the appropriate magic users in your party, I would highly recommend Blind fight and Blind sight. If the wis score is prohibitive (even after buffs) see if he can get blindsight made permanent on him. As a human he is already disadvantaged in poor lighting conditions relative to the elf and half-orc.
As he is unlikely to ever find a better double sword than what he's got, Sunder may not be a bad option either. There is also the improved sunder in S&F splat book which makes this tactic very effective.
In general, this character ought to be very effective in multiple situations with his feat selction. He has great flexibility and ought not be better than another character is in that character's specialization. However, there are ways to add flavor which should satisfy the player. The most important thing is his attack bonus. With his increased number of attacks and power attacking the drawback is the attack bonus. This player should try and increase his attack bonus in every way possible. If you allow Rokugan stuff, with his high dex he should consider II and the crane technique feat that gives a +2 to attack with a chosen weapon (with weapon focus) if you beat the opponents initiative. This with either blooded or thug from FRCS should be a nice hefty bonus. Also, this makes the combat reflexes and expert tac. chain much more attractive. If he picks up Expert Tac. he should definitely take a few levels of Ninja and may even want to consider a few levels of rogue despite the BAB decrease. Otherwise, always stick with classes that give a +1 BAB/level.
Hope that helps.
Get the PC to make a solid adamentium [to prevent sundering and because it would just look cool] double sword (including haft) and enhance both blades with returning and throwing. Have the player throw the double bladed sword giving him 2 attacks (one for each blade) against any two opponents in a circular path (treating returning as a boomerang effect). This would be a house rule for sure but does not seem to mechanically different than similarly enhancing two longswords and in fact is more limiting (circular path). Alternatively, I would allow one side to be enhanced without the other side and only allowing the one side to be used for the thrown attacks (only one attack instead of two). If it were me I would take ranged shot and also put a distance enhancement (which should qualify since the weapon can now be used at range) to triple the range. Yes this is completely plagerized from Ninja Scroll but seems to be following the character's lead.
Warrior classes excel at multiclassing because of the constant BAB. See what he wants with his character concept. Suggest he pick up a level of Barbarian if it is within his character concept, or any of the appropriate PrC's (to his character concept), otherwise just stick with Fighter for the feats. If you are allowing non-standard classes, suggest the Ninja from Rokugan.
It sounds like he is the only one in the group who can wear heavy armor without penalty. Suggest/offer some really good heavy armor. With enhancements and buffs he should have the best AC in the game. With his +3 Dex, you could offer a mithril version so that he could still take advantage of his Dex bonus to armor. However, even if it is normal steel, he will still net a better AC than anyone else as the max total AC from armor and dex for all armors is 8 and platemale is 9. Another option would be to use a buckler and shield expert (not sure if he qualifies or if it is legal). Once he has the kick arse armor spike and enchant the spikes to +5 defending (the spikes are always threatening so should be able to be used defending all the time. Moreover, they serve as a very useful defense against being grappled (where this character would seem to lose all of his power).
I would second the TWF feat chains as well as improved critical. In fact, I should have said to get each side enchanted with keen as well. That is a must.
He has rapid fire but is not in a position to readily receive quickdraw (if his next two feats are ITWF and IC). Get a glove storing or Haversack to retrieve missile weapons as a free action (if he wants to full attack while missile attacking). IDHMBWM so it may be the case that returning is a free action in which case by the rules he could just throw his sword with all of the iterive attacks. But, I like my description better
.Have him take full advantage of his greater number of attacks. A often overlooked ability is to use rapid shot in conjunction with TWF. He will take a -4 to all attacks so it is not for every situation, but in the cases where he is fairly sure he will hit, it is really useful. He can take his full number of attacks with his double sword in melee then take a five foot step back and throw his sword - a pretty nice combo if you asked me.
Another often overlooked combo is to bullrush opponents through threatened areas of your companions. If your PC is interested in more of a team effort, pick up IBR. This in conjunction with Dodge and Mobility (yes this would not be until 12th level for all 3 additional feats) can be quite nasty, ESPECIALLY with a rogue in the party. Moreover, the party could learn to incorporate this tactic as a matter of routine with T'sai, finishing off the wounded opponent once he has been pushed through the meatgrinder so to speak.
If your campaign is conducive to grappling monsters see the above recommendation as well as recommend CQC.
If you do not have the appropriate magic users in your party, I would highly recommend Blind fight and Blind sight. If the wis score is prohibitive (even after buffs) see if he can get blindsight made permanent on him. As a human he is already disadvantaged in poor lighting conditions relative to the elf and half-orc.
As he is unlikely to ever find a better double sword than what he's got, Sunder may not be a bad option either. There is also the improved sunder in S&F splat book which makes this tactic very effective.
In general, this character ought to be very effective in multiple situations with his feat selction. He has great flexibility and ought not be better than another character is in that character's specialization. However, there are ways to add flavor which should satisfy the player. The most important thing is his attack bonus. With his increased number of attacks and power attacking the drawback is the attack bonus. This player should try and increase his attack bonus in every way possible. If you allow Rokugan stuff, with his high dex he should consider II and the crane technique feat that gives a +2 to attack with a chosen weapon (with weapon focus) if you beat the opponents initiative. This with either blooded or thug from FRCS should be a nice hefty bonus. Also, this makes the combat reflexes and expert tac. chain much more attractive. If he picks up Expert Tac. he should definitely take a few levels of Ninja and may even want to consider a few levels of rogue despite the BAB decrease. Otherwise, always stick with classes that give a +1 BAB/level.
Hope that helps.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
I'd suggest simply running encounters where the specialist's specialisations are a liability.
It's fairly easy to create a situation where the melee specialist cannot melee (level-draining creatures, chasms, towers, walls etc.)
It's also fairly easy to create situations where the archer cannot arch (creatures taking cover, forcing the party into dead-ends and mixing it up with lots of monsters etc.
Since the player won't have any point where he just has to sit back and watch, he should realise the benefits of his choices.
As to throwing/returning? I'd allow the character to only have to enchant one end of the weapon with these abilities. Even combined, they're not the most powerful abilities, and a two-bladed sword isn't an optimum choice either. Allowing this little bennie should be fine (although I'd still require that throwing and returning have to be on the same blade as each other).
It's fairly easy to create a situation where the melee specialist cannot melee (level-draining creatures, chasms, towers, walls etc.)
It's also fairly easy to create situations where the archer cannot arch (creatures taking cover, forcing the party into dead-ends and mixing it up with lots of monsters etc.
Since the player won't have any point where he just has to sit back and watch, he should realise the benefits of his choices.
As to throwing/returning? I'd allow the character to only have to enchant one end of the weapon with these abilities. Even combined, they're not the most powerful abilities, and a two-bladed sword isn't an optimum choice either. Allowing this little bennie should be fine (although I'd still require that throwing and returning have to be on the same blade as each other).
kengar
First Post
bret said:
Yes to the feats, bret.
The barbarian is an 18STR (unraged) half-orc with a greataxe. When raging she has 100hp+ and do a ridiculous amount of damage.
The archer is a ranger/wiz (nearly Arcane Archer) with a +1 Longbow of Shock. Her ranged attack bonus is somewhere around +14; which -in an 7-8th level party is pretty high.
drnuncheon
Explorer
kengar said:
This is legit?Wow. So you're saying the extra attack of TWF stacks with the Rapid Shot? Also the fact that the first attacks weren't ranged still lets Rapid Shot come into play?
It's certainly been presented that way in Dragon's 'Power Play' articles, although that's not exactly a definitive source. Looking at the rules...
Rapid Shot: "You get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon." No mention of having to make all ranged attacks.
So, by that, you could fight with a dagger, make your normal attacks (at -2) and then throw it with Rapid Shot. Or, you could throw a dagger, quickdraw another weapon, and fight with it.
Since that's true, and there's nothing indicating that 2WF and RS don't stack...I guess they do. Dagger-armed rogues rejoice!
kengar said:EDIT: re: adamantine. Would an adamantine double sword be +9k or +18k in cost?
I'd say +18k, since it's 1d8/1d8 - just as if it were two adamantite longswords. Conceivably you could have a double sword where one end was one material and the other was a different material.
J
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