Player looking to "jazz up" character

[Taren Seeker]

I've always had a problem with people spending 1 full round action (full attack in this case) to use multiple special abilities that EACH require a full round action.

The PHB doesn't say the two abilities don't stack, but it shouldn't have to since you can't have 2 FRA's in a round.

This is consistent with the rulings on dirty fighting and circle kick, but not with that silly Sage powerplay about taking off-hand attacks during a whirlwind.

 

[kengar]

I'd say +18k, since it's 1d8/1d8 - just as if it were two adamantite longswords. Conceivably you could have a double sword where one end was one material and the other was a different material.

I suppose. That's pretty steep though.

 

[kengar]

I've always had a problem with people spending 1 full round action (full attack in this case) to use multiple special abilities that EACH require a full round action.

The PHB doesn't say the two abilities don't stack, but it shouldn't have to since you can't have 2 FRA's in a round.

This is consistent with the rulings on dirty fighting and circle kick, but not with that silly Sage powerplay about taking off-hand attacks during a whirlwind.

But the Rapid Shot extra shot itself isn't a FRA, is it? In the scenario above, the fighter uses TWF and a FRA to melee attack 3 times (i.e. double weapon & high enough BAB), then throws the weapon. If he had used his FRA to shoot a bow, he'd still get the extra arrow. Since it's all the same weapon, and you could argue that the attack penalties represent the fact that he is "rushing through" his swings to get them all in, I think the logic holds up overall.

It's a powerful combo, no doubt; but I think I would probably allow it since I doubt it's going to come up all that often and the character is apying a lot feat-and-item wise for it.

 

[Taren Seeker]

But the Rapid Shot extra shot itself isn't a FRA, is it? In the scenario above, the fighter uses TWF and a FRA to melee attack 3 times (i.e. double weapon & high enough BAB), then throws the weapon. If he had used his FRA to shoot a bow, he'd still get the extra arrow. Since it's all the same weapon, and you could argue that the attack penalties represent the fact that he is "rushing through" his swings to get them all in, I think the logic holds up overall.

It's a powerful combo, no doubt; but I think I would probably allow it since I doubt it's going to come up all that often and the character is apying a lot feat-and-item wise for it.

Rapid Shot is an FRA. I just don't see a way to combine the two.

Since rapid doesn't state that all attacks need to be ranged (which I consider loopholing) then I guess you could take your 2 attacks from BAB (at -2) then throw, but not take any offhand attacks. That way you're not invoking Rapid and TWF. This is also a powerful combo since IIRC you'd be getting 1.5 x Str for all 3 attacks.

But it's still messy, since throwing a large weapon is an FRA in itself

edit: As for not coming up often, I think you'll be surprised. If he does take Rapid, he can do this every time he takes a full attack action. He can rip off all his TWF attacks and if his target drops, throw, or if it doesn't he can 5' step back and throw anyways.

 

[Victim]

Those feats don't use up the full round action, they just require you to be using the full round so you don't get multiple attacks when moving around. Or use rapid shot twice, once on the full attack and once on the haste partial.

I'd say that the inconsistent rulings are on Dirty Fighting and Circle kick. Flurry of blows requires a FRA. It doesn't remove all your extra iterative attacks. Same thing with 2 weapon fighting or rapid shot. Dirty Fighting and Circle Kick are now worthless for characters with an extra attack from levels, and that seems like pretty poor design (but perhaps not as bad as the original design on some S&F stuff).

 

[kengar]

Rapid Shot is an FRA.

Using the Rapid Shot feat to have more attacks than "normal" is a FRA, but the additional attack itself doesn't take a FRA. That's my only point there.

But it's still messy, since throwing a large weapon is an FRA in itself

Is throwing the weapon -once enchanted with the Throwing enhancement- still a FRA? It's treated as a normal throwing weapon at that point (no penalties for using that type of weapon in a ranged attack, etc.).

As far as how often it comes up, unless he buys the Throwing and Returning enchantments for the sword, it probably won't come up much. Otherwise, he's flinging away his main weapon and has to go retrieve it. Or carry several. If he's bought all those enchantments, I feel he's invested a lot as a player and character for that ability. Giving up - or paying even more for- extra damage attacks (like Flame and Shock, etc.) for this "special effect."

 

[kengar]

New question about all this: If the character has the Improved Critical feat and the Throwing enchantment on at least ONE of the blades, does he get the increased threat range when throwing it?

 

[drnuncheon]

New question about all this: If the character has the Improved Critical feat and the Throwing enchantment on at least ONE of the blades, does he get the increased threat range when throwing it?

I have always ruled that you get the benefit of your feats however you use the weapon. Some people rule that things like weapon focus and weapon specialization do not cross over between 'modes' of use. So I guess it depends on what type of DM you are.

J

 

[kengar]

I have always ruled that you get the benefit of your feats however you use the weapon. Some people rule that things like weapon focus and weapon specialization do not cross over between 'modes' of use. So I guess it depends on what type of DM you are.

J

I decided to rule 'Yes.' Using the logic that if a PC took ImprCrit on dagger, I would let it apply when thrown or in melee. Thus, the Throwing enchantment should compensate for a weapon that isn't normally ranged in the same way.

 

[Alaxk Knight of Galt]

What is the character upset about. Is it the fact that his character doesn't dish in combat or that his character's personality is weak.

If its combat damage, give him a cool double sword that matches his personality. I would shy away from anything that matches the powers of the other characters (Rage, Archery, or Sneak Spring Attack combo) and let the character shine on his own.

Some suggestions for both Combat Dishing and Role Playing

- Vicious - Grants 2d6 bonus damage to whomever is hit and deals 1d6 to the wielder
- Vampric - Deals an extra 1d4 extra damage that heals the wielder
(or put the two together for a really evil weapon)
- Give the weapon the Knock-Down feat. Whenever it deals 10 or more points of damage, the wielder gets a free trip attack on the victim (with Weapon Specialization and +3 Str Bonus this should happen 50% of the time). Once on the ground, the PC can wail on the victim as he receives a -4 to AC.
- Curse the PC; allow it to have some good effect but overall be negative. For example, in Princess Mononoke the main character touches a demon. It grants him great strength but the curse is slowly killing him (and spreads faster when he uses his great strength). This allows the PC to have the spotlight on him and gives you an adventure (removing the curse) when you want it.
- Allow the previous owner of the weapon you give him to want it back. This allows a good story that cast the spotlight on the PC (if you are really clever, work in some of his backstory to the plot).
- Allow the PC to be replaced by an imposter. The two of you can sit down and determine how this happens and the point of it, but it also allows the PC to try out some different things. You can change around his stats, allow him to use different feats and skills, and confuse the other PCs as to what has happened to the character they once knew so well.

Hope these help