Player looking to "jazz up" character

[kengar]

Someone mentioned the idea of the character getting hold of an Adamantine 2-Bladed Sword. If the metal grants it a "natural enhancement" of +2 (DMG. 242) and the character wants to have the weapon enhanced with the Keen enchantment (a +1 equiv.); does he pay the +1 rate (+2000gp/blade) or the +3 rate (an additional +10,000gp/blade)?

 

[Murrdox]

Even though Adamantine is a "natural" +2 bonus, having a weapon made of the stuff still counts as a +2 enhancement - so increasing it to a keen adamantine blade would in fact be a +3 total enhancement bonus.

This is all off the top of my head though. Check the book.

Since Adamantine is a bonus in and of itself... I'm not sure if this would let you have just a "Keen Adamantine" blade, as opposed to a "Keen Adamantine +1" blade - normally all items need to be at least +1 before you can put special abilities on them... but the adamantine might count as the weapon enhancement for this purpose... I'm not sure. Keep it in mind though... you might need to make it a +4.

 

[Gaiden]

Murrdox, I believe this is another case where the SRD is not explicitly true to the literal text. I recall long debates on these boards and the letter of the rules said the offhand attack had to be a melee attack. I will check the PHB to be sure when I get home.

 

[kengar]

Another interesting point re: Adamantine weapons. If I am reading the DMG correctly (p.74), an adamantine sword's +2 does NOT help to penetrate DR.

"Weakest = Silver, mithral, or other special material"

That kinda blows for the cost.

 

[Taren Seeker]

2 things:

First: The TWF feat cannot be used with a missile weapon. Check out the crossbow description in the PHB. I know, I know, weird place for it, but there it is.

Second: Adamantite has 3 advantages: 1) it works in anti/dead magic. 2) It has uber hardness and HPs. 3) The natural bonus can make enhancing weapons cheaper as shown below.

OK, the +2 bonus from adamantite does not allow you to stack magic enhancements on it, you still need to enhance to +1 before adding special effects. However, this can still save you some cash. If you want to put holy on a weapon, you have to pay 18k gp. At this point, you have a +1 holy weapon. With adamantite, you now have a +2 (not for DR though) holy weapon, and it has cost you 26k. Making a full +2 holy weapon would cost you 32k. The more enhancements you layer on, the more you save since it's a geometric formula but the total is always counted as if it was a +1 weapon. You can effectively break the +10 limit with this.

Kengar, in the case of double weapons, yes you still have to pay double for the adamantite, since you're making 2 separate weapons with it.

Note that it's more effective to make heavy armor out of adamantite since the bonus always works and you still get big savings.

And I still wouldn't allow someone to use rapid shot while making melee attacks.

 

[Gaiden]

Adamentium does bypass DR. The +X need not be magical - it only represents an enhancement which adamentium gives - this is expressly why the adamentium bonus does not stack with a magical enhancement bonus.

 

[kengar]

Found an old thread over on Monte Cook's site:
(condensed for simplicity)

Question: Does the +2 for Adamantine defeat DR?

Answer: The intent of the rules originally was that it did not.

Upon careful re-consideration, I think it would be OK if it did.

-Monte

No idea where that leaves the debate however.

On the subject of the TWF & Missle fire:
PHB p. 100

The Two-Weapon Fighting feat does not reduce these
penalties because it represents skill with melee weapons, not ranged weapons.

Fair enough as far as I'm concerned, but the combo of TWF + Rapid Shot would still allow the weapon to be thrown after the TWF attack. Albeit at higher penalties than some have described above.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thus, just like Hypersmurf had said... someone with a +10/+5 BAB with ambidextry, two weapon fighting, and rapid shot, with no other modifiers could:

Throw the main-hand dagger (ranged) +6 (+10 BAB -2 rapid shot, -2 two weapons)

That one's wrong. It should be -4 for two weapons, because you get no advantage from the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat with ranged attacks.

First: The TWF feat cannot be used with a missile weapon. Check out the crossbow description in the PHB. I know, I know, weird place for it, but there it is.

Yup. But notice that it is not required to have the feat to attack with two weapons - and the heavy crossbow description indicates that it can be done with ranged weapons as well as melee weapons; the feat only serves to reduce the penalties thereby incurred when attacking with melee weapons.

-Hyp.

 

[Murrdox]

ahhhhh... now I understand your chart a little better, Hypersmurf... and somewhat understand what kind of crack you're on.

So you're saying that when using 2 ranged weapons:

1) Yes this is possible, you can weild two ranged weapons

2) You DO benefit from the Ambidextrous feat

3) You do NOT benefit from the Two Weapon feat

 

[Taren Seeker]

Yup. But notice that it is not required to have the feat to attack with two weapons - and the heavy crossbow description indicates that it can be done with ranged weapons as well as melee weapons; the feat only serves to reduce the penalties thereby incurred when attacking with melee weapons.

-Hyp.

Oh I know, which is why I said you can't use the TWF feat. I have no problem with someone throwing a weapon with the off hand, as long as they take the appropriate penalties and still have an attack left. Note that if you have ITWF, you can only throw the off hand weapon if you haven't attacked with that weapon yet. ITWF only grants you an extra melee attack on top of the one that any PC can make. Layers and layers...all from someone asking about throwing a double bladed sword.



As for Adamantite (this ain't Marvel Comics folks), the MM2 spells it out precisely, pg 16 under damage reduction. Natural enhancement bonuses do not bypass DR.