Player looking to "jazz up" character

[Taren Seeker]

Going with a literal interpretation of the rules, as written in the PHB/MM/DMG

Adamantine does count as the +1 minimum that all weapons must have to be enchanted further. The passage which lists the minimum only says it must have a +1 enhancement bonus, not that that bonus must be a +1 magical enhancement bonus. Any enchantment added however, uses the FULL enhancement bonus to determine price (ie - adding a +2 ability to an adamantine shield will cost the same as adding the +2 ability to a +2 shield). Overall, such an item costs more, not less than a normally enchanted weapon. I don't see that there is a problem here...

K, I'm not going to get too into this with you as it's been argued way too often on the boards. kreynolds posted a bunch of links in another thread. The only thing I'll say about it is that it's a natural enhancement bonus, which is different from a regular one.

Adamantine does bypass DR, allow the weapon to sunder other enchanted weapons, render the weapon unsunderable by normal weapons etc. What's the justification for it not doing so in MM2? It costs significantly more than just making a +2 weapon - why should one of the primary benefits be stripped away? Are AMF's common enough that the ability to continue to provide a paltry +2 bonus to hits and damage is worth the ability to hit creatures with DR AND an additional 1000+gp?

If you were correct in the first section above then yes, adamantine would be a raw deal. But you're not, so it isn't.

And the MM2 just confirmed what the intent of a natural enhancement bonus was in the first place.

That's it! I'm done.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Yeah, noticed the other thread right after I posted that. And I still don't subscribe to the theory that the MMII is the right way to do it, and I won't until it's in the faq (until then, it's just another mistake).

To me it's a case of
a) "which ruling is more fun?"

and

b) "which ruling is less complex?"

The answer to both of these is a ruling of 'the natural +x enhancement bonus of adamantine is exactly the same as any other enhancement bonus'. It's more fun because it actually makes adamantine a somewhat worthwile substance (it costs at least 1000gp more than enchanting the item equivalently!), and it's simpler because it eliminates the existence of yet another bonus type, one which violates the normal rules of bonus types (ie - that it's a different type to enhancement bonus, but it still won't stack with it) and will cause confusion because of it's name, and the way that name is applied (ie - that a natural +2 enhancement bonus is the same as a +2 natural enhancement bonus, yet would be different from a +2 enhancement bonus that is natural).

 

[Darklone]

Halfling fighter2/ranger1 with quickdraw...

Three daggers per round at about +6/+6/+6

 

[Murrdox]

Perhaps Hypersmurf will enlighten me here on this one...

With the situation that was being discussed previously regarding using two weapon fighting and rapid shot at the same time... I was trying to come up with scenarios where you could even DO this.

So you're a rogue with a ton of throwing daggers - you have a fighter in front of you. Fighting with two weapons, and using rapid shot, you can stab him 3 times, and throw a dagger at him (assuming you have two attacks normally)

Yes... you COULD do this... but I don't see why you WOULD - because you'd suck an attack of opportunity from the fighter when you threw the dagger at him point blank.

So bascially, why would you ever want to use rapid shot in combination with melee attacks unless you either A) Absolutely positively NEEDED to do more damage to it this turn or B) Knew that there was very little chance the fighter would hit you with an AoO.

 

[kengar]

Kengar, now that my post has completely caused a hi-jack of the thread, what did you and the PC decide to do? Do like the ideas posted on the first page? I always like to hear how character design after suggestion from the boards works out.

Here's how we decided to play it for now:

The player is completely up for the Improved Critical, Cleave, etc. Feat progression. That was more or less how he envisioned the character progressing from the beginning. I think part of the problem was we left this campaign behind for a while and he is/was having a little trouble getting back into playing this character.

I've also recommended the AC & STR boosting items to him.

As far as TWF + Rapid Shot; I'm allowing it as a full round action, but the TWF won't lessen the penalties for the ranged attack. If he enchants both ends of the sword with Throwing, then it can make 2 ranged attacks, including the Rapid Fire penalties, etc.

Adamantine: Here's how the metal will work in IMC -

1) Cost for the 2-bladed sword I dropped to *1.5 instead of *2. The whole adamantine pricing system is screwy anyway, it just be per pound. I did this to let the player have something new and interesting sooner, since he couldn't afford an 18K sword right now.

2) Adamantine won't penetrate DR

3) For enchanting, it counts as non-magical Masterwork, but he'll have to put a +1 on it before doing anything else to it. The +1 won't stack with the metal's +2, but it will work v. DR (obviously). This will make the sword design he's after cheaper in the long run, but a bigger initial cost for the adamantine than for a "normal" magic weapon.

Also, for the magic. If he puts Returning on it, he only has to buy that once (not for each blade). The +1 equivalent will count against the total enchantment of each side, though. I think his sword will -ultimately- be something like:

+2 (+1 for DR) Keen Adamantine Boomerang Double-Blade

Or some such

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, folks! And don't feel bad for the "side discussions."

 

[Gaiden]

You mentioned boomerang...

Are you going with the cool visual from Ninja Scroll or following the letter of the script in the DMG? If you are going for a literal boomerang effect, have you added in any sort of house rules to incorporate path of travel? I only ask because I would be interested in following this character as I have a similar NPC in one of my campaigns.

 

[LokiDR]

By "'offhand' monk attack" do you mean Flurry of Blows?

-Hyp.

Actually, I meant forhead, elbow, knee, foot or some other non-kama weapon.

You know, I don't think I should clutter this thread. I think I will post a new thread.

 

[kengar]

You mentioned boomerang...

Are you going with the cool visual from Ninja Scroll or following the letter of the script in the DMG? If you are going for a literal boomerang effect, have you added in any sort of house rules to incorporate path of travel? I only ask because I would be interested in following this character as I have a similar NPC in one of my campaigns.

Actually, I was referring to both Throwing and Returning on the weapon. The player and I discussed the whole "arc" throw, but decided it would be a PITA to tactical. So we're just going with a straight "There & Back Again: a Double-Sword's Holiday." line

 

[Darklone]

With the situation that was being discussed previously regarding using two weapon fighting and rapid shot at the same time... I was trying to come up with scenarios where you could even DO this.

Depends if the DM allows you to take your 5ft step between the melee attacks and the throwing.

Yes... you COULD do this... but I don't see why you WOULD - because you'd suck an attack of opportunity from the fighter when you threw the dagger at him point blank.

See above. Melee attacks, step back 5ft, throw dagger.

In my case, the halfling would prefer to take that 5ft step back at once and throw all of his daggers... worse to hit but more damage thanks to PBS.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In my case, the halfling would prefer to take that 5ft step back at once and throw all of his daggers... worse to hit but more damage thanks to PBS.

Given that halflings get a +1 attack bonus with thrown weapons, a +1 ranged attack bonus through PBS, and generally have a higher Dex than Str, your attack bonus actually improves despite the penalties for attacking with two weapons.

-Hyp.