Player problems

[Tinker Gnome]

Well, i know for those who have seen my other threrads know i have a lot of problems. But, most lie with one of my players. Well, it goes like this. I made an altered Remohraz from the MM. And i gave it a braeth weapon, well, when i said it was going to attack him, he said he was entitled to a ref save, which he was So i llte him roll the save, and he got a nat 20. Unfortunately for him, he still did not beat the DC for the worm. Well, he began arguing that a nat 20 was always a success. And we got into a big arguement. Which resulterd in my parents pulling us asde and telling us to get along. He also always acts conscending towards me, and created his character just to create party conflict. And he acts like an @$$. He made me take away an item from the Monk, which were claws that let him hit things from 30 feet away. They only did 1d10 damage. So, i gave the monk a darkvision headband instead.

Also, while he was DM he came up with a rule called "Size does matter", which he said that no matter what, if it was a size larger than you, it could always kill you. No matter how high your AC was.

This person also happens to be my older brother. He is real nice to me outside oof the game, but he acts like an @$$ when he does play. And i can never convince him to see it my way. He is one of the most stubboen people on the planet. Not to mention he gets the rest of the players to always agree with him against me.

Oh yeah, and he stabbed the Paladin for some damge, he says he is playing CN, but it seems to me like his is playing NE. And could someone tell me the page in the DMG where it mentions Rule 0?

 

[Glyfair]

Oh yeah, and he stabbed the Paladin for some damge, he says he is playing CN, but it seems to me like his is playing NE. And could someone tell me the page in the DMG where it mentions Rule 0?

I know a lot of people like to pull Rule 0 out of the hat as the "the GM can do anything he wants." However, one thing to remember about Rule 0 is that it must be applied fairly. Part of that is letting the players know in advance about a rule change that's fairly major. Having a natural 20 miss on a saving throw is such a change.

It definitely sounds like you two shouldn't be playing together, right now. Your relationship definitely doesn't sound like it works when you game. You get on his nerves and he gets on yours. Why game together if neither of you are enjoying it?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

* I believe that technically, a natural 20 does always succeed (and a 1 always fail) when making a saving throw or attack roll. However, as a DM you are certainly within your rights to rule it otherwise, so long as you're consistant.

* I'd have complained about the claws too. A melee attack from 30' away? Yikes. But again, so long as the other characters have equally powerful goodies, all is well.

* "Size does matter" is fantastic. Next time you play in his game, start searching out 20th-level halflings and gnomes to kill using the rule. The xp should level you fast as lightning. If you see anything large or larger, run away.

* I'd suggest you talk with your brother outside of the game and ask him to cut you some slack. If he's regularly nice to you, then he may not even realize how much he's picking on you in the game. Let him know that he's messing up your gaming experience. Hopefully he'll take it to heart and back off a little.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

* I believe that technically, a natural 20 does always succeed (and a 1 always fail) when making a saving throw or attack roll. However, as a DM you are certainly within your rights to rule it otherwise, so long as you're consistant.

* I'd have complained about the claws too. A melee attack from 30' away? Yikes. But again, so long as the other characters have equally powerful goodies, all is well.

* "Size does matter" is fantastic. Next time you play in his game, start searching out 20th-level halflings and gnomes to kill using the rule. The xp should level you fast as lightning. If you see anything large or larger, run away.

* I'd suggest you talk with your brother outside of the game and ask him to cut you some slack. If he's regularly nice to you, then he may not even realize how much he's picking on you in the game. Let him know that he's messing up your gaming experience. Hopefully he'll take it to heart and back off a little.

Well, i am pretty sure that a nat 20 is only an instant hit in combat. As for the claws, they will only always have done 1d10, his fists would have gotten better regardless. Not to mention the other plays have planty of nice goodies. I was just giving him a way to attack from a range. Not to mention there might be some monsters he does not want to touch. And like i said, he will not listen to me. Another problem, is that he cannot take a joke. I try to be silly, but he just gives my evil looks. I admit i am a very light heared person by nature, and i am very optimistic, while he is pessimistic.

In the game, his problem is, he just keeps annoying you until he gets what he wants.

 

[WonkaMania]

Well, i am pretty sure that a nat 20 is only an instant hit in combat.

You're thinking of *skills*.. skills are NOT subject to a natural success on 20 or failure on 1. Saving throws, however, ARE successes on natural 20's and failures on 1's.

(as for the "size does matter" thing, I'd be pretty pissed about that and say "ok", and then proceed to kill his character with something of a size larger than he is. Then kill his next character the same way. And the one after that. Ask him if he still thinks "size does matter" is a cool rule. )

 

[Tinker Gnome]

You're thinking of *skills*.. skills are NOT subject to a natural success on 20 or failure on 1. Saving throws, however, ARE successes on natural 20's and failures on 1's.

Well, that looks like a rule 0 to me. And they cant complain, because they asked for a harder game, so i am giving them a harder game.

 

[GMVictory]

You're thinking of *skills*.. skills are NOT subject to a natural success on 20 or failure on 1. Saving throws, however, ARE successes on natural 20's and failures on 1's.

Page please? I'm looking in my PHB and nat 20 and nat 1 are only applicable to attack rolls (pg 123, Automatic Misses and Hits). Nothing is mentioned on pg 119-120 or pg 150 in regards to saving throws and what is an automatic success or failure.

A natural 20/1 is not automatic success/failure for a saving throw. This is according to my 3E PHB. If it has changed for 3.5, I wouldn't know.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

*Bangs head on wall*

I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but my group plays 3.0.

 

[GMVictory]

*Bangs head on wall*

I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but my group plays 3.0.

That's ok. As far as I can find, natural 20 is not automatic success for a saving throw.

I'd say talk to your brother about cutting you some slack.

Here's a DM trick: When a player asks how something happened or why things went the way they did, just say, "I don't know. I guess you'll have to figure it out." Make sure you come up with one. Then reveal it later. But listen to your players too, they might have a better idea than you do. Use it and they'll be happy for figuring it out.

I'm not sure how he made you take an item away from another player or even NPC that you were comfortable with them using. Try not to let him browbeat you and stay calm (hard I know, I got a brother too).

 

[Liminal Syzygy]

In the 3.5 PH it is clarified that a natural 20 on a save is always a success.

However, in the 3.0 PH this never appeared. At one point in Dragon's Sage Advice and the 3.0 FAQ the Sage did say that natural 20s are always a success, but many disagreed with this ruling and didn't implement it in their games.

So I can see where this could become contentious between two brothers playing the game.