Player problems

[Rel]

The one tidbit that I'm moved to add to the conversation at this point is this:

If you put a creature up against your players for them to battle and a natural 20 won't save against its breath weapon, it starts to look less like a "monster encounter" and more like a "plot device with feet". I'm not saying that the party should never run up against an adversary that can't be saved against on a 20 (or can't be hit on a 20) but it seems likely to cause friction if it happens too often. I can certainly see it being interpreted as a "I'll show YOU who's boss" sort of situation, especially among siblings.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

The one tidbit that I'm moved to add to the conversation at this point is this:

If you put a creature up against your players for them to battle and a natural 20 won't save against its breath weapon, it starts to look less like a "monster encounter" and more like a "plot device with feet". I'm not saying that the party should never run up against an adversary that can't be saved against on a 20 (or can't be hit on a 20) but it seems likely to cause friction if it happens too often. I can certainly see it being interpreted as a "I'll show YOU who's boss" sort of situation, especially among siblings.

Well, yeah i did get a bit annoyed with him, he kept trying to undermine my decisions. And he kept acting conscending towards me. When i finally decied to let him avoid the damage hge then said "damn right" with a smug look on his face. And yet, he gets pissed at me when i do something like this to him. He just keeps annoying you till he gets his way, in the game, and in real life too.

When he was a DM, he threw character that were near 20th level at us, when we were only level 8. He even had one guy just stand on a field all night, just so we would have to fight him.

 

[Trainz]

Well, don't play with him !

It's so obvious !

D&D is a game. If you don't like playing it with someone, then don't !

 

[Corinth]

Natural 20s are automatic successes on attack rolls and saving throws in v3.0. This issue got clarified in the official errata documents. That player got hosed.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Natural 20s are automatic successes on attack rolls and saving throws in v3.0. This issue got clarified in the official errata documents. That player got hosed.

If you heard, i let him pass the save. Not to mention i did not know about the errata.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Okay, the thread has gotten a bit off-track. The point is really that the original poster is having problems with his older brother, not whether or not he was wrong about saving throws automatically succeeding on a 20.

Galeros, all I can say is, talk to your brother. If he won't listen to talk, then you really only have two choices. A) Have what fun you can and don't let him get to you. Or B) stop gaming with him.

It's unfortunate, but if he's unwilling to change his behavior, then you really have no choice but to deal with it or leave.

 

[billd91]

Okay, the thread has gotten a bit off-track. The point is really that the original poster is having problems with his older brother, not whether or not he was wrong about saving throws automatically succeeding on a 20.

Galeros, all I can say is, talk to your brother. If he won't listen to talk, then you really only have two choices. A) Have what fun you can and don't let him get to you. Or B) stop gaming with him.

It's unfortunate, but if he's unwilling to change his behavior, then you really have no choice but to deal with it or leave.

It is true that 3.5, like editions 1 and 2, clarified that a natural 20 is always a success with a save. We've been over that pretty much now.

As for playing with your brother, one of my players (and sometimes DM) has the same problem with his brother. He never catches an even break from him in D&D. Solution: they don't play together.

It's funny that sibling relationships can be pretty good overall, but have one or two really disfunctional facets to them. I think you've got one of those here. Either tell him to shut up and let you run the game as you see fit (in accordance with the acceptance of the rest of the players, that is) or not play.

 

[BSF]

Normally, if I had a player that was argumentative, disruptive and condescending toward me, I would not invite the player back. In your case, you are dealing with a sibling, so you have a few other issues to consider.

My #1 suggestion when people are asking for advice with problem players is to communicate. Communication can save you a lot of trouble over time. You and your brother need to communicate a little better if you are going to game together. He needs to back off and let you run the game the way you want to, just as he would need to do that if somebody else were running the game.

If he has legitimate complaints about the way you run the game, both of you need to agree to discuss those after everyone else leaves.

In my games, my players are free to offer a counter arguement to any of my decisions. I will briefly consider it and we will resume the game. If they still don't like the results, we will discuss it out of game and resolve the issue fully at that point. I'm not trying to be a hardhead on that, but it is important for me to remember that I have 7 other players sitting around the table who want to play, not listen to rules debates.

You and your brother need to show the same courtesy to your friends who are playing with you.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

My #1 suggestion when people are asking for advice with problem players is to communicate. Communication can save you a lot of trouble over time. You and your brother need to communicate a little better if you are going to game together. He needs to back off and let you run the game the way you want to, just as he would need to do that if somebody else were running the game.

I tried doing this, but he then said, that the way i like to run it is not "real" D&D.

 

[BSF]

Real DnD? That's funny. Hey, where is Diaglo when we need him?

What constitutes "Real DnD"? Does an adventure through a crashed spaceship buried in a mountain cross the line? What about heading off to the home plane of a goddess so you can kill her? Both of these ideas are from Gary Gygax over 20 years ago. Is it the concept of feats and skills? Earlier editions didn't include these things. I could go on, but my point is that "Real DnD" is a game and the only right way to play it is to have fun. Your brother appears to be inhibiting your fun, and possibly the fun of other people in the game.

You are right, he is just being a jerk. Point out that if he doesn't like the way you are running the game, he doesn't have to play. But, if he would like to have fun and would like to play a character that is willing to not be a jerk to the other characters, he is welcome at the table during the game.

Keep in mind that if he has more rules knowledge than you do, he may create characters that rely on the book ruleset. If you arbitrarily change the rules, you need to let all the players know in advance so they don't build a character on the wrong premise. That is your responsibility as the DM. As an example, in my campaigns, I do not use any of the PHB dieties. I have my own homebrew gods and a cleric must worship them. This is a change from the PHB that I need to tell my players about before they create a character.