Player so afraid PC will die that she's not having fun

[Hjorimir]

Damn - ForceUser, you are lucky to have a friend like Hjorimir to give you a straight, honest assessment of your gaming style. As a DM I am always trying to get feedback from my players on how I can improve. Right now, I feel like I am floundering and trying to find my track again. It would be great to get some straightforward feedback like this.

Heh, thank you for the kind words, BSF. As a DM myself I know just what you mean. Truth is, one of the reason ForceUser has issues like this is his talent as a storyteller, which can really brings a player into the game on a personal level. Sometimes it gets emotional. I personally love it! Some players have a hard time coping with it at times. When somebody makes an emotional investment into a character it takes on a life of its own. I'm not saying there shouldn't be character death (I probably would rank as the killer DM among our circle of friends), but you have to realize that when a character dies you may get some upset players.

ForceUser, have you considered using the Death & Dying rules from UA? I use them because they are more forgiving than core rules for character death. Maybe that will help them some.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The problem I've always found with locks (and I'm building off of what's actually presented above) is that the ones I expect to be hard to pick and trapped aren't, and the ones I expect to be easy to pick and untrapped aren't either.

In other words, I'll meticulously check each and every door for locked status, traps, pitfalls, pratfalls, strange noises, puffs of wind, odd temperatures, etc.

After doing this and finding absolutely nothing at each of the first 15 doors and wasting upwards of 1/2 an hour of the other players' time, I'll just open the next one.

Guess which one was trapped.

Perhaps your players are running into similar situations?

 

[Zog]

Give the party some form of a get out of jail free/avoid TPK solve problem once card/favor. A single wish, from a helpful and generous spirit. The ability to summon a powerful cleric or wizard or friendly extra-planar being. Thus, they know they can avoid total disaster once. You still have lots of tension, only instead of being Will we be killed? It is Will we have to use our one-shot? It relaxes things around the table a great deal - the players know they can get out if they really have to - they don't want to use it, but they can if they must. I've found that simply having such a thing, even if never used, removes cold, debilitating fear, without eliminating drama or tension or fear of failure or lack of challenge.


Another idea would be to demonstrate just how easy it is for a DM to kill characters. Create some sort of 'dream scenario', a nightmare of what might be or the like. And have all of the monsters (just a bit tougher than normal) focus all attacks on 1 PC (taking AOO if need be), and keep attacking once the character is down and at negative. Repeat in every encounter in dreamscape - the longer a single PC survives, the more info about future events/problems/plot the party can accquire. And explain, in and out of game, that the dreamscape is what the world would be like without the guiding hand of a benevolent ruler (ie, the God gods - aka, a friendly DM). The goal of the DM is to make the players fear their PCs might die, but NOT actually kill them (baring bad luck or really stupid choices or brave heroic deaths).

 

[tonym]

Well, it seems like you inadvertently taught them to be afraid of you. (Some DMs actually TRY to impart this mindset...)

There's a few things you might do to try and change your players' attitudes:

Make all encounters much easier from now on, so that it's unusual for a PC to go below 10 HPs during a battle.

Not only stop the anti-player humor, but start saying stuff like, "Awww, man. I rolled a critical. Geeez. I hope I roll minimum damage..."

Have an NPC join the party who is much weaker than the weakest characters. This NPC can praise the PCs' abilities and talk about how they are the deadliest folks he's ever met. If the Players hear it enough, they may begin acting more heroic.

Make all traps do minor damage, like only 1d4 or 1d6. Traps are scary, and if you can de-scarify them, your Players will braven-up a bit.

Have an NPC give each PC in the party a single-use magic item that will automatically resurrect them 1 minute after they die. Call it something like an "Amulet of Heroic Deeds" and have it shaped like a dragon or some other fierce creature. Then tell them that there is a 50% chance that if they die bravely in battle--like while trying to save the life of a friend--the single-use charge may not be depleted after it's use.

Award extra XPs on-the-spot for decisive actions. So if somebody says, "Dang it! Enough talk! I open the door!" she gets 50 XPs instantly.

Hope that helps...

Tony M

 

[drnuncheon]

I hate killing PCs.

J
...it's so hard to torture a corpse.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Not taking pot shots at you (as your style obviously works for your other group) but lots of people (including me, and I think your current group) consider a TPK to be a sign of a bad and un-fun game. I want to play a HERO, be the star of the show, and win in the end. Granted, really dumb moves should end messily, and sometimes characters should die, especially if they're actively sacrificing themselves, but I consider random character death to be bad.

So, while your style works fine for your other group, you're going to have to change some for your new group. Not entirely, but you're going to need to meet them halfway. At least if you want to keep the group.

 

[Nellisir]

Not taking pot shots at you (as your style obviously works for your other group) but lots of people (including me, and I think your current group) consider a TPK to be a sign of a bad and un-fun game. I want to play a HERO, be the star of the show, and win in the end. Granted, really dumb moves should end messily, and sometimes characters should die, especially if they're actively sacrificing themselves, but I consider random character death to be bad.

Given that I don't know the circumstances of the TPK, I agree with this. A campaign shouldn't be a story the PCs happen to be in -- it should be a story about the PCs.

That said, I agree with easing up on them for a little while. If you normally roll out in the open, roll behind a screen and fudge things to be easier. Don't make the fights blindingly simple -- the players should feel like they honestly won -- but don't push them all the way to the edge for awhile. Build up their confidence in their ability to survive.

Also, force them to make a few decisions. If a few characters normally hide behind the tanks and hem and haw about what to do, flank 'em with a few goblins. Make them move and react.

Finally, if a character dies, make sure it means something. Nothing is more depressing to a player when a beloved character dies a meaningless death.

Good luck,
Nell.

 

[BlackMoria]

I have used a 'token' system when starting a new game with players relatively new to the game that has worked well.

Tokens are earned by doing something out of the ordinary, such as great roleplaying for a situation, take a risk, doing something heroic - whatever you deem appropiate.

A player can use a token to offset some bad luck or a bad decision. The expendure of a token changes the die roll or the outcome to the minimum required for success for that occasion for new players, or enables a re-roll for more experienced players.

For example, if someone fails a saving throw, they can use a token to ensure the roll succeeds. If someone gets critical hit, they can use a token to ensure the critical is not confirmed. That sort of idea.

Unlike action point, hero points or luck points - which are sometimes automatically earned by leveling, etc....token awards are controlled by the DM and I use them as rewards.

So, to earn a token, someone has to do something out of the ordinary. This encourages players to assume some risk because there is a tangible playoff - a token. The token can be saved from game to game and I make them hard enough to earn that they don't ruin the game by having the players think that tokens make them immune to consequences.

What I like about my token system is that I personalize the awards to the individual players. If Player A's character is always a daredevil (because that is how he plays him), then Player A's character has to be an extraordinary or clever daredevil to get a token. Player B, on the other hand, is more introverted and plays his character very conservative by not taking risks. Now if Player B's character suddenly rushes the BBEG despite the obvious danger to save a downed party member (an act not usually in character for him), Player B gets a token (and I award more than one token for a circumstance if it clever, audacitous and shows kutzpah), whereas, Player A may not be a token for the same action because it is typical of what his character would do.

I found that players are more likely to take risks or go the extra distance to earn a token, because they know that tokens can help save their characters when it goes badly or ill luck strikes.

Once players have become more experienced and confident, you can make tokens harder to earn or you can wean them off the tokens by giving them less and less over time until they barely notice they aren't getting them anymore.

My two coppers....

 

[BSF]

ForceUser, have you considered using the Death & Dying rules from UA? I use them because they are more forgiving than core rules for character death. Maybe that will help them some.

I use those and have had two PC deaths since then. One was Macbeth's PC on Friday evening. *sigh* I _thought_ the death & dying rules would be easier, but in both cases it has led to a PC dropping to just below 0 and failing two saves in a row. *bang* Dead PC that if I were using the standard rules would have had a few rounds of potential left.

I am hanging onto them though because I know when we get a little higher it will be possible to go from decent HP to more than -10 in a hit. Still, it has been a little sad in both cases.

 

[jmucchiello]

I am hanging onto them though because I know when we get a little higher it will be possible to go from decent HP to more than -10 in a hit. Still, it has been a little sad in both cases.

We use a simple rule that no single event can bring your hit points below -9. We also use negative CON score as the point at which death occurs. This means when you are fighting the huge giant who does around 30 hit points of damage each shot and you are down to 4 hps, you won't end up a smear if the giant hits again. Because even if he crits, you will not drop below -9 from that one blow. Of course, when someone is at -9, the party better stabilize you soon because death will not be far behind. But that is no different than the normal rules.