Players: it's your responsibility to carry a story.

[jonesy]

A little sidetrack concerning dangling plot lines:

In one campaign I had a team of NPC adventurers who were roughly the same level as the PC party.

When the PC's rejected a murder mystery investigation proposal from a local merchant, I had the NPC's take care of it. The merchant rewarded them well, and the team became local gossip.

When the PC's heard of dissappearing cows and did nothing, the farmers went to the NPC's, who brought them back. They became friends with the farming community, and local gossip.

When the PC's failed to catch a thief who'd been targeting noble families, got bored and went elsewhere, the NPC's saved the day. And thus their reputation soared.

so

When the PC's went to the king to become part of a high reward campaign against a group of necromancers the king said: "Who are you? These are the heroes I've chosen." Que the NPC team the PC's had been hearing about.

 

[Mallus]

The PC's in my current 4e campaign are carrying the story all right... straight off a cliff. Well, technically into a semi-religious Communist revolution which they'll be on the losing side of (protip: don't bet against the rich if they're both competent and vigilant).

That is, if they aren't killed by the warlock Mafia they just framed for grand theft deity, or during their trip to Hell for a wedding (a Tiefling PC is trying to marry into the Infernal Aristocracy).

 

[Wicht]

Part of the art of DMing is the art of presenting the illusion of choice in a way that makes the players feel in control of their character's destiny as the story continues to progress. This is true in both sandbox games (where there are simply more choices) and in more linear games.

It is also my experience that DM's make better players than players who have never DM'd.

That said, I'm not going to rant or complain about players because without players the DM has nothing to do but roll dice by himself and move his own character through his own dungeon (been there, done that, not as satisfying as running a group of other people).

 

[Evilhalfling]

My campaign is similar to Plane sailing in that its more like an interchange than a railroad. Even when I don't want or expect it to be.
Perhaps my hooks and implications are too subtle.


Or maybe I'm just dissapointed the PCs avoided a hook that was supposed to help set the theme of the campaign, showing what one of the underlying world problems was. A right of passage, given by the spirits of a PCs destroyed tribe, and the chance to heal the pain of a wounded mountain spirit. The goliath player flailed to show up, and the rest of the party decided it was his problem.

They went on to kill a catastrophy dragon threating a town of evil ratmen slavers, (for pay) and then pout because they are not strong enough to attack the town's leader (although they could/did kill some of the town members, who ambushed them on the way back from killing the dragon)

They even missed the implications that powerful nature spirits could summon/create catastropy dragons. (learned in arcana check)

I do provide lots of other story hooks, and the PCs are planning on backtracking to follow a older one. Which they passed up earlier to come try and rescue the slaves from the ratmen.

What I need is a clue hammer.

 

[Mortellan]

Good topic.

I agree with the OP and all those whose experience is that DMs are better players. This is not to say they have more fun, but we are more respectful of what the DM is trying to achieve. I know when I play whatever RPG that I never try to derail a plot but rather prefer the railroad, and I rarely use meta knowledge (example: where I am a player in a Greyhawk game when I'm usually the most knowlegable of that setting).

 

[Lanefan]

I used to find writing up a storyhour was excellent value, as the players would read it and get reminded of important dangling plot hooks from one or more of the adventures.

I find I as DM read it and get reminded of dangling plot hooks I'd forgotten about!

What I've learned over time is that while I might have an adventure or story in mind and even have the PCs en route to it, my players never met a red herring they didn't like* and thus side trips and left turns are relatively common.

* - says he, who just got done running an entire adventure that wasn't intended to happen; the party decided to go chase Giants instead of staying on mission...

It has also happened that a party gets on an adventure path but in the first adventure or two gets clobbered so badly that even they realize they are in no fit shape to stay on that path; so they go and look for something else.

Lanefan

 

[Kzach]

I haven't been DMing as long as you, however when somebody is constantly at odds with their group, it's usually a problem with them and not the players neglecting their storyline responsibilities.

Who is constantly at odds with anyone?

Did you actually read what I posted? Most of the time groups have fallen apart simply because I moved away from the area and it was no longer local for me. I don't own a car and rely on public transport, meaning if I move just two suburbs away, it can mean more than an hour's increase in travel time, and it often means cutting short games at 10ish because busses tend not to run late in most outer suburbs of Melbourne. And it's worse on weekends.

Another thing I've found about groups is that they're extremely fragile, and when you get someone like me who steps up to the plate and organises people, who then stops organising them, they (OMG!) stop being organised. The amount of groups who have had enough people and a perfectly fine venue to play at who have stopped playing together simply because I stopped organising them, I have lost count of.

Have I had conflicts with groups? Sure, and I have left groups because of people I didn't like, and I'm sure people have not liked me either. But I never indicated that there was any disproportionate amount of groups that I've 'been at odds' with, and the fact is, that's simply not the case.

Which makes me wonder just what exactly your agenda was with posting such a comment.

 

[Kzach]

On a side-note, if anyone lives in or around Ringwood and wants an extra player who will show up showered, with solid rules knowledge, ready and updated character sheet, and who will follow your plot and clues, email me

 

[Umbran]

Which makes me wonder just what exactly your agenda was with posting such a comment.

To adjust a phrase: do not attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by simple miscommunication. Rather than have an "agenda", it is far more likely they just "read into" the post a bit too far, and made some assumptions that you'd say aren't warranted.

 

[MortonStromgal]

I find its more important that players have common ideas/goals than that they are proactive. Though I could see that as a problem. I tend to run NPCs with motivations and events. The PCs will at some point run into these NPCs or events and then choose how they will deal with it. This then becomes their part of the story. I had a modern horror where the PCs decided stopping gang violence was more interesting than stopping the unspeakable horror from becoming mayor. It was an interesting game.