reapersaurus
Explorer
thanks for the link, Darkness!
Caliban said:
Caliban said:
Players wanting to become infected with Lycanthrope
- Thread starter Outlanders
- Start date
DiFier said:
Again, no way in hell he's going to kill the party while in the form of a 2-foot long rat. He's meat on a stick -- probably literally.
This is a huge amount of comic relief waiting to happen -- clearly, this munchkin thinks he'll turn hybrid when he "turns". Not into a lil' rat.
Dingleberry said:
Exactly the proper course of action. Can't say I think too much of DM's cooking up devious little plans to spring on naughty players to teach them a lesson about how they're supposed to be playing--at least not until after other reasonable courses of action have failed. IMHO, if a DM doesn't like "metagaming" (a term casually applied to players who use their heads to make their characters more effective), then he should look those players directly in the eyes and let them know that kind of business won't fly in his campaign.
Dungeons & Dragons characters aren't podunk farmers or cobblers that fell arse-backwards into the hero business. Even a 1st-level character isn't a fish-out-of-water when it comes to dealing with the supernatural. Adventurers should be familiar with the capabilities of common monsters. It comes with the territory. So why wouldn't an adventurer know about lycanthropy? If the player exercised knowledge that would require a skill, then tell him it requires a check. If there's no relevant skill, then at least entertain the notion that if falls under the scope of common adventurer knowledge.
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Sniktch
First Post
I had something similar happen in one of my games. The halfling barbarian was infected by a wereboar, and while he didn't actively try to get the disease, he decided he wanted to keep it for awhile.
I told him that was fine, but I explained that because of his new damage reduction and powers I was going to have to drastically increase the CR's of the creatures they bumped into.
He was on his way to a temple when he was killed in a freak combat mishap (missed a save by 1 from a ghoul's claw, then rolled a 1 on the save for the coup de grace a round later). When he was raised he insisted on being cured too.
I told him that was fine, but I explained that because of his new damage reduction and powers I was going to have to drastically increase the CR's of the creatures they bumped into.
He was on his way to a temple when he was killed in a freak combat mishap (missed a save by 1 from a ghoul's claw, then rolled a 1 on the save for the coup de grace a round later). When he was raised he insisted on being cured too.
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Caliban said
This comment demonstrates not just close-mindedness, but more than a little naivete. Sure, lycanthropy's a curse. I've heard of cursed heroes before, haven't we all? There's been more than a few heroic vampires in fiction, for instance, and indeed even in D&D fiction, despite the fact that they're all supposed to be chaotic evil. I wouldn't be at all surprised to pick up a Forgotten Realms novel and discover a protagonist that's afflicted by lycanthropy (something more high-powered than wereratism though). If D&D has heroic vampires, liches, drow, minotaurs, etc. taking part in adventures and activley flouting the evil bent that the evil bent that their creature-type mandates, then why the heck not a wererat fighter?
Caliban was more on-target with a statement made in the previous paragraph, namely that lycanthropy is balanced-out by its drawbacks. If a player's willing and able to cope with them, then more power to him--literally.
This comment demonstrates not just close-mindedness, but more than a little naivete. Sure, lycanthropy's a curse. I've heard of cursed heroes before, haven't we all? There's been more than a few heroic vampires in fiction, for instance, and indeed even in D&D fiction, despite the fact that they're all supposed to be chaotic evil. I wouldn't be at all surprised to pick up a Forgotten Realms novel and discover a protagonist that's afflicted by lycanthropy (something more high-powered than wereratism though). If D&D has heroic vampires, liches, drow, minotaurs, etc. taking part in adventures and activley flouting the evil bent that the evil bent that their creature-type mandates, then why the heck not a wererat fighter?
Caliban was more on-target with a statement made in the previous paragraph, namely that lycanthropy is balanced-out by its drawbacks. If a player's willing and able to cope with them, then more power to him--literally.
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Feh! Let him have his fun. The DMG has rules for Monsters as PCs, which include a level equivalent. For example, a Werebear is "Class levels +4". That means you dock the player four levels and he becomes a Werebear. Alternately, design a lycanthrope Prestige Class: Instead of simply gaining crunchy bits, require his PC to gain levels and acquire the crunchy bits he needs to be a lyncanthrope Prestige Class; while he's gaining these levels, he must also properly roleplay. The Prestige Class should be **weaker** than gaining levels in a standard class -- cite game balance issues, if you even decide to tell him how the class works! (If there's a Lycanthrope d20 supplement, have the player buy it. "Hey, it's not my idea for you to play a lycanthrope. Why do I have to buy the rules?" 
I **like** the LE rat guild idea. Read X-Men comics? The LE bad-guy mutants are always recruiting their fellow kind. "Join us or die", hehehe. You could also have fun letting the **other players** play more powerful wererat NPCs. Evil is fun.
Edit: Hey, look what I found! Ask 'em for a review copy and promise you'll playtest it!
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=CGtW
Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
I **like** the LE rat guild idea. Read X-Men comics? The LE bad-guy mutants are always recruiting their fellow kind. "Join us or die", hehehe. You could also have fun letting the **other players** play more powerful wererat NPCs. Evil is fun.
Edit: Hey, look what I found! Ask 'em for a review copy and promise you'll playtest it!
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/reviews/index.php?sub=yes&where=currentprod&which=CGtW
Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
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rangerjohn
Explorer
Not condoning this but in ansewer to the post... There is already such a character, Kelemvor the god of death, was a were-panther before he became a god during the time of troubles.
Of course this was actually a curse on the males of his family not inflicted. So I guess he was a NATURAL lycanthrope.
Of course this was actually a curse on the males of his family not inflicted. So I guess he was a NATURAL lycanthrope.
jdavis
First Post
Forrester said:I'm confused about those taking Outlanders to task for making the fighter/wererat go nuts and attack the party.
It says in the MM that the check to resist an involuntary change is DC25, and the check to return to humanoid form is DC20 or DC25 (depending on the moon). I doubt this fighter is going to make ANY of these checks.
It also says (p. 219) that "no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and becomes a ravening beast".
The "ravening beast" part certainly suggests that he's going to involuntarily attack the party. Note also that he will turn into ANIMAL form, not hybrid form (so he'll turn into a two-foot long rat!)
Outlanders, do you have any idea how much fun you can have with this? ANY time he takes damage after the first transformation, he'll turn into a rat (and all of his armor will drop off of him -- this isn't poly self) unless he makes the impossible-for-him DC25 check.
If he somehow manages to turn back (DC25 or DC20), he'll be a naked human, his gear in a pile on the floor or around him.
Play it like it says in the MM, and he'll be BEGGING for a Remove Disease spell soon enough.
If you are going to play it by the rules then this is the rules, he becomes a big rat controlled by the DM, that is what the rules say, I'd stick to it. Instead of killing the other PC's (a hard proposition being he would be a big rat) have him spread the disease to the other players, then everybody has to go get cured. I don't see where Lycanthropy as a affliction is anything but a curse. (see MM 218 and 219). If this guy wants to work the rules to get the disease, then he should have to play by the rules as set down in the book. I'd also tell him to cut it out, it's bad enough he is playing a LE character in a good group, this is just silly powermongering, if he has been a DM then he should know better than to unbalance the party with this kind of metagaming crap.
Every time a DM let's the players encounter a lycanthrope, there is a possibility that the character gets infected and turns into a lycanthrope himself.
I'd say this effect would be wellknown from stories and battlereports, or at least should be.
After a battle with lycanthropes, a party should take the necessary steps to remove the curse, for the initial fases of lycanthrope bring more trouble than it's worth.
Remove disease or heal cures lycanthrope if the caster is level 12+. Remove curse and break enchantment cure lycanthrope regardless of level.
Even a 5th-level cleric can cast remove curse. Any midlevel town should be able to help the party out here. Untill the character is cured, the party is travelling with a timebomb.
The first night of a full moon, the character changes into animal form (in this case the form of a dire rat). In this form, he'll strike out at anything he comes across.
In this form he can be a danger to the party, as he gains damagereduction and improved stats during the change, but doesn't lose his hitpoints and continues using his bab.
Unless the party has taken precautions against the inflicted rampaging around, like locking him up, they're going to have to deal with the dire rat.
If and when the character changes back, he'll be able to make a check the next time he might get an unvoluntary change (during another full moon, or when taking considerable damage). He could also try a voluntary change.
I'd rule that any unvoluntary change would turn the character inflicted into an npc for the duration of the change. The rest of the party might be resentfull if the player picked up the dice against them. The werecreature would have no knowledge of friend or foe, and lash out at everything. The party just lost an ally and gained a hazard. A character that had gone through a voluntary change would remain in the hands of the player though.
The party could be interested in playing with an inflicted character though. I think this should be a group-decission. If the rest of the group doesn't want to adventure with a timebomb, they shouldn't be forced to. But if they would be willing to try, it can make for interesting roleplaying. The party would have to take regular full moon preparations. If the party would find themselves in town, they might have to convince the cityguard to let them use one of their holdingcells for the night.
If all players agree to let the inflicted stay a lycanthrope, you shouldn't let the pc level untill he's gathered enough xp to account for the ECL of the lycanthrope type. That way he won't be overbalanced when he voluntary takes lycanthrope form during combat.
The player will have to be wary of the "Bruce Banner" effect though. When he can't use his alternate form in combat, he's much less effective than the other characters.
I'd say this effect would be wellknown from stories and battlereports, or at least should be.
After a battle with lycanthropes, a party should take the necessary steps to remove the curse, for the initial fases of lycanthrope bring more trouble than it's worth.
Remove disease or heal cures lycanthrope if the caster is level 12+. Remove curse and break enchantment cure lycanthrope regardless of level.
Even a 5th-level cleric can cast remove curse. Any midlevel town should be able to help the party out here. Untill the character is cured, the party is travelling with a timebomb.
The first night of a full moon, the character changes into animal form (in this case the form of a dire rat). In this form, he'll strike out at anything he comes across.
In this form he can be a danger to the party, as he gains damagereduction and improved stats during the change, but doesn't lose his hitpoints and continues using his bab.
Unless the party has taken precautions against the inflicted rampaging around, like locking him up, they're going to have to deal with the dire rat.
If and when the character changes back, he'll be able to make a check the next time he might get an unvoluntary change (during another full moon, or when taking considerable damage). He could also try a voluntary change.
I'd rule that any unvoluntary change would turn the character inflicted into an npc for the duration of the change. The rest of the party might be resentfull if the player picked up the dice against them. The werecreature would have no knowledge of friend or foe, and lash out at everything. The party just lost an ally and gained a hazard. A character that had gone through a voluntary change would remain in the hands of the player though.
The party could be interested in playing with an inflicted character though. I think this should be a group-decission. If the rest of the group doesn't want to adventure with a timebomb, they shouldn't be forced to. But if they would be willing to try, it can make for interesting roleplaying. The party would have to take regular full moon preparations. If the party would find themselves in town, they might have to convince the cityguard to let them use one of their holdingcells for the night.
If all players agree to let the inflicted stay a lycanthrope, you shouldn't let the pc level untill he's gathered enough xp to account for the ECL of the lycanthrope type. That way he won't be overbalanced when he voluntary takes lycanthrope form during combat.
The player will have to be wary of the "Bruce Banner" effect though. When he can't use his alternate form in combat, he's much less effective than the other characters.
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