Players wanting to become infected with Lycanthrope

[Tar Markvar]

What about this thread struck you as having to do with "enhancing the players' fun", exactly? The impression I got, and the objection I have, is that it mainly seems to be about vindictive and adversarial ways of punishing someone for metagaming.

Funny, I found this thread to be quite helpful. Ironic that you're being adversarial about a thread that you think is so adversarial.

What I've gotten from this thread isn't a collection of ways to be vindictive, but a number of ways to help control a powerhungry metagamer in such a way as to avoid having them ruin the game for the other players. I agree that forcing them to fight the party is a bad idea, but there's nothing wrong with using a player's decision to make things interesting for the players as a whole. If that can also teach a metagamer about the consequences that follow certain actions, that's even better.

 

[jdavis]

What about this thread struck you as having to do with "enhancing the players' fun", exactly? The impression I got, and the objection I have, is that it mainly seems to be about vindictive and adversarial ways of punishing someone for metagaming.

I don't think there is any punishment you could hand out stronger than the actual rules, guy tried to use the rules to his advantage, guy turns into a big NPC rat almost every time he takes damage, guy thinks better of this and tries to get the curse removed. It's all by the rules, the same rules the guy abused. Nothing vindictive or adversarial about it. I don't think having him kill the party is a good move as everybody might just throw up their hands and say to heck with it and quit (a common occurance in a TPK). Roleplaying this out is a more fun option than telling the guy "NO! you are going to ruin the game and you should know better". It has been pointed out that the evil character thinking this might be a good thing was some pretty decent roleplaying, it's just the metagaming that went with it. Solve the situation with good roleplaying and it will turn out fun.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

In this case, though, the party could fairly easily deal with the problem if the one PC turned on them in a fit of blind lycanthropic rage, and I don't want the lycanthrope to die at the hands of the party--I want her to be a threat. She also happens to be a half-black-dragon (I know how this sounds), though, and I guess her augmented were-form strength plus her acid breath would be a big plus to her.

Well, for keeping Half-Dragon abilities in hybrid or animal form, the answer is simple-- Half-Dragons can't be Lycanthropes in the first place, because their creature type is Dragon. Only Humanoids can be natural or infected lycanthropes.

edit: spelling

 

[msisden]

Funny this subject comes up, recently, in the campaign I'm playing in, my rogue character became a wererat. A nasty side effect from being bitten three times while defending one doorway against two wererats while the other 5 memebers of the party defended the other door against the other two wererats. Of the two party members, only two of them knew, the dwarven cleric, who got cured first, after being bitten a few hours later (but he took off on a side quest after the dungeon), and the party's sorcerer (who keeps trying to make my character into a lackey and 'forgot' to tell the other players about what was going to happen). Needless to say, I changed into hybrid form and layed into the rest of the party, and the only reason they are still alive is because I messed up my AC (since I was still under the effect of cat's grace and mage armor). My character has escaped the party once already since being captured that night (having maximized escape artist because of 'other' party interaction). But was later recaptured and led to a city to be cured at swordpoint to escape yet again when the Thayans stopped the rest of the party because they were all magic users.

Anyway, we haven't found it to be too unbalanced yet, but then again, everyone just hit 7th level so.... But the forced change part is just nasty, especially since my next level or two is going to be fighter due to the fact that I'm slowly becoming an assasin and am honing my combat skills.

 

[Outlanders]

Well... here is the story, the end result of this whole messed up situation.

As a GM, I've quit the game for these people, and I will not be returning.

Why?

Well, simply put, things got way out of hand before I could even try to fix it.

Here is what happened.

Sunday, we had the last battle for the adventure that I was running for the group. After they divided up the loot, it was time for the full moon to take place.

The player, who now that it was pointed out to me, is a power-gamer to the extreme, realized that I had every intention of having him turn on the party.

Reason? Very simple. He said that after he fails his roll and turns, he was going to head down to the temple, and slaughter the priestess that I had set up there.

I lost my temper and told him straight that it was not going to happen. I pulled out my Monster Manual, and pointed out the fact that when he undergoes the first change, he is a raving animal and will attack anyone around him, he won't remember who or what he is.

So, of course, he changed his plans. He told the group, consisting of 2 lawful good characters, one lawful neutral and one neutral good, and a chaotic good, what was going to happen to him.

So, instead of the players taking him down to the cleric to have him cured, they take him back to the dungeon and drop both him, and the other person, into 2 ten foot pit traps and leave them there, closing them up so they couldn't get out, and allow them to become were-rats.

Oh, and to top it off, the next thing that happened was that after they both failed, and turned, the next day, the ended up biting the rest of the party, so that all of a sudden, they have a pack of six were-rats.

I threw up my hands, and that was pretty much that. One player, decided that he was going to control my game, and basically said that there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it.

Again, I lost my temper, and said that if he was going to complain (which he did, about the treasure that they got from the adventure, which I have to admit was more than they were supposed to get), and moan about there being no adventure hooks (I told the group 3 seperate times, I needed to know if they were heading back to the small village, waterdeep, or the dungeon, so I could know which hook to use). He then called me a poor GM.

Of course, that got my dander up. I countered and told him straight that well... gee, what do you expect from a guy who's STILL LEARNING THE BLASTED GAME AND HAS ONLY RAN IT FOR 5 SESSIONS!! Mind you I used a hell of a lot stronger language than that.

He then proceeded to call me a Blankety blank GM who didn't even use the module as it was written (thus proving that he read it cover to cover, proving that he was a cheat).

So, with a hearty F-you, cheat, I left the group, not to return.

I should have seen the warning signs. The first sign was the guy who got me into the group. He told me that they had been playing for 3-4 years now and that he's the only one who happened to be left from any of them, and how that players would regularly quit, or be told to leave.

Now, as for a poor GM, what is worse, a first time GM (who had it thrust upon me with a total of ONE DAYS NOTICE), trying to do the game the proper way, and make it somewhat more challenging that it was to the party, and giving it some honest effort...

Or...

A GM who threw a KRAKEN at a group of 2nd level characters, every fight has been life or death, in one session alone killed six of the character (2 of them twice), and the last game we played, when we barely managed to take out the last bad guy, we ended up getting sickeningly powerful magic items (a plus 5 breastplate with 5 regen, a stone that cast miracle once per week, and a horn that cast heal once per day, and we're only SIXTH LEVEL!).

Sorry about the rant, but I am really choked about this, and I had to get it off my chest.

Chris

 

[Forrester]

Let it out, let it out .

It sounds like you made the right call -- this guy is clearly a wanker -- and I love the giveaway about how he'd read the module already.

No loss, really . . . just time to find another group. And for god's sake, if you're still learning the game, don't DM! DM'ing 3E is not an easy thing to do, as it's pretty rules-heavy as systems go. I mean, if you are in a friendly group that's willing to help you out (and maybe rotate with you) it's survivable, but in general I'd put in a few months as a player before you try it again.

 

[Kesh]

Yeow. Sounds like it's a good thing, in a way. Better to leave now than keep playing with people who are going to abuse you like that.

 

[jdavis]

Well... here is the story, the end result of this whole messed up situation.

As a GM, I've quit the game for these people, and I will not be returning.

Why?

Well, simply put, things got way out of hand before I could even try to fix it.

Here is what happened.

Sunday, we had the last battle for the adventure that I was running for the group. After they divided up the loot, it was time for the full moon to take place.

The player, who now that it was pointed out to me, is a power-gamer to the extreme, realized that I had every intention of having him turn on the party.

Reason? Very simple. He said that after he fails his roll and turns, he was going to head down to the temple, and slaughter the priestess that I had set up there.

I lost my temper and told him straight that it was not going to happen. I pulled out my Monster Manual, and pointed out the fact that when he undergoes the first change, he is a raving animal and will attack anyone around him, he won't remember who or what he is.

So, of course, he changed his plans. He told the group, consisting of 2 lawful good characters, one lawful neutral and one neutral good, and a chaotic good, what was going to happen to him.

So, instead of the players taking him down to the cleric to have him cured, they take him back to the dungeon and drop both him, and the other person, into 2 ten foot pit traps and leave them there, closing them up so they couldn't get out, and allow them to become were-rats.

Oh, and to top it off, the next thing that happened was that after they both failed, and turned, the next day, the ended up biting the rest of the party, so that all of a sudden, they have a pack of six were-rats.

I threw up my hands, and that was pretty much that. One player, decided that he was going to control my game, and basically said that there wasn't a damn thing I could do about it.

Again, I lost my temper, and said that if he was going to complain (which he did, about the treasure that they got from the adventure, which I have to admit was more than they were supposed to get), and moan about there being no adventure hooks (I told the group 3 seperate times, I needed to know if they were heading back to the small village, waterdeep, or the dungeon, so I could know which hook to use). He then called me a poor GM.

Of course, that got my dander up. I countered and told him straight that well... gee, what do you expect from a guy who's STILL LEARNING THE BLASTED GAME AND HAS ONLY RAN IT FOR 5 SESSIONS!! Mind you I used a hell of a lot stronger language than that.

He then proceeded to call me a Blankety blank GM who didn't even use the module as it was written (thus proving that he read it cover to cover, proving that he was a cheat).

So, with a hearty F-you, cheat, I left the group, not to return.

I should have seen the warning signs. The first sign was the guy who got me into the group. He told me that they had been playing for 3-4 years now and that he's the only one who happened to be left from any of them, and how that players would regularly quit, or be told to leave.

Now, as for a poor GM, what is worse, a first time GM (who had it thrust upon me with a total of ONE DAYS NOTICE), trying to do the game the proper way, and make it somewhat more challenging that it was to the party, and giving it some honest effort...

Or...

A GM who threw a KRAKEN at a group of 2nd level characters, every fight has been life or death, in one session alone killed six of the character (2 of them twice), and the last game we played, when we barely managed to take out the last bad guy, we ended up getting sickeningly powerful magic items (a plus 5 breastplate with 5 regen, a stone that cast miracle once per week, and a horn that cast heal once per day, and we're only SIXTH LEVEL!).

Sorry about the rant, but I am really choked about this, and I had to get it off my chest.

Chris

Everybody has their own view of how the game should be played, sometimes they are just crazy though, that is fine for them. it seems like the main reasoon they wanted you to run the game is because they thought they could take advantage of your lack of experience. What they should of done is stated from the start that they wanted to run a powergame and wanted it to be tailored to extreme things happening. Of course the fact that the guy probably read the adventure and was trying to become a Wererat probably shows that leaving was the best bet in the long run anyway. Good luck, I hate to see people loose gaming groups but this was for the best, and if you ever see them again feel free to point out that we are all laughing at them.

 

[Sammael99]

Well... here is the story, the end result of this whole messed up situation.

Hey Chris,

You seem pretty angry about the whole thing, and I can certainly understand that.

Since you're a self-confessed beginner GM, I guess it's OK to give you a few words of advice although I would like to point out before hand that nothing I'll say is "ultimate advice" since I wasn't in this same situation you were in, and I could very well have ended doing exactly what you did.

First of all, I think it's important for roleplaying to be fun that the players and GM be on a similar wavelength in terms of expectations and that they get along pretty well together. It seems to me that this was not the case, and if my understanding ic correct then you did the right thing by quitting.

However, assuming you would have preferred to continue, here's a number of things you could have done :

a - The metagaming player assumed that he knew the rules and was using them to his own end. In your position, I would not have explained him before hand that he was wrong about the rules : I would have let the situation arise in game, when he could no longer retract. Here's how it could have played out : Player : I intend to change and blast the priestess
GM : Unfortunately, when the full moon comes, you change into a dire rat and attack whoever's nearest to you. Roll for initiative
Player : Hey, that's not how it works !
GM : Well, it is, read the rules, MM page so and so.

Then handle the combat situation. My guess is he would have been pissed off but the other players would have found it very funny...

b - Assuming things didn't go "your way" and they were all changed into wererats. I understand that's definetely not what you were intending to run but how about going with the flow ? So they're all wererats. The big baddy wererat comes to them and says "OK now guys, you're working for me or you get your ass kicked". They disagree, they get their ass kicked, he sends them on missions they don't want to do, whatever, make their life hell ! Not for vengeance's sake, but because they deliberately decided to become creatures that just don't run around for no reason...

c - About the fact that he read the module before hand, did you suspect it ? If you did (and if that ever happens to you) then re-work the whole module. Change everything. It takes a bit of time but it's worth it. Then either he'll betray himself and look like a dork or he'll admit defeat and just shut up and play.

However, all that said, the golden rule is : "find people you'll have fun playing with"...

 

[Outlanders]

Sammael99

Thanks for the advice. That's the one main reason why I started to post here, to find out what other people would do in certain situations. It's something that I'll chalk up to a bad experience, but I'll remember what you and others suggested.

As for him reading the adventure, yes, I did indeed have a suspicion that he had, and thus the changes that I made to it, and I guess that he didn't like what I did because it wasn't what he had expected.

Typical... Ah well, a bad experience is now complete, I'll learn from it, and try to find another group, hopefully the next one will turn out better than this one did.

All the best,
Chris