Players Who Are Too Smart?

[Victim]

That's not so much an example of someone being smart, as someone assuming that his foes are bereft of intelligence.

Of course, it's no fun for the players if all their plans don't work. In fact, it can lead to more boring play - if clever tricks won't work, then just rushing in and killing becomes increasingly attractive.

 

[taliesin15]

I have an old friend from high school who has played in most campaigns I have run over the last 26 years or so, and clearly he's more intelligent than I am. The problem is even intelligent people make stupid moves. I mean, this guy is really smart but there's still a huge gulf between him and Stephen Hawking. Still he's used to being smarter than everyone else, and that tends to make him arrogant towards me, and even worse, to the other players. Not all the time. I think this is more a problem than him just being smart.

And not to bring politics into this too much, but I recently read an interview with Al Gore--when asked about how intelligent he thought Bush was, Gore said, I think quite accurately, that there are different types of intelligence.

Early in the game: Challenge Every Possible Skill. Within the first two game sessions of my current campaign, I had gotten players to jump (across a mud pit), balance (on a shaky old wagon)

I have to say that THIS is a GREAT idea!

 

[heimdall]

That's not so much an example of someone being smart, as someone assuming that his foes are bereft of intelligence.

Of course, it's no fun for the players if all their plans don't work. In fact, it can lead to more boring play - if clever tricks won't work, then just rushing in and killing becomes increasingly attractive.

Given the example in the article, there are a lot of obvious flaws in the plan (which the columnists points out). I think you're right, though, in that if you're always slamming the players' plans, they get tired of it. What I do in a situation like this is I pause and pull the player aside and point out some of the obvious issues. Because quite honestly, if the player playing the psion would have gone through with the plan, that PC is toast. And I hate killing PCs when the players think they have a rock-solid plan and it's a good one, just with some oversights.

 

[Scarbonac]

There are times when the PCs dance on the heads of your BBEGs and Mooks like there's no tomorrow.

It happens.

 

[eris404]

One thing about the article that annoys me a little is - what about all of the other players? This addresses only one player with a creative scheme (and sure, the person with the question did only ask about one player) and I'd like to know what the other players were thinking and doing. What was their part of the plot or were they simply content to let the psion do all the work? In my experience, it's not so much that there is one player who does this, but that all of the players work together and come up with some brilliant plans. It certainly makes being the DM a lot tougher.

 

[Frostmarrow]

A couple of sessions ago my players where about to storm a 3 story-building situated in the middle of a swamp. The first floor was already flooded but the rest of the building housed a whole slew of nasty monsters and bad guys. The cleric of Thor in the party says to me that he'll cast control water and raise the water level for all he's worth.

I think to myself "Man, this way he'll drown the entire encounter makning it far lower than EL 10. -But what the heck..." I didn't even stop to consult if the spell would actually work in this fashion 100% but who cares. The player made a smart move and he got the admiration of his fellows. An all in all great encounter.

 

[LostSoul]

The author makes a couple of errors in pointing out the flaws.

1) If the Psion has a Disguise bonus greater than the orcs' Spot check, he can Take 10 and he won't have to roll. The orcs won't be able to roll that high. (eg. Psion has +2, and Takes 10 when he dons the Disguise. He gets a 22. Orcs have a +1 Spot check, so the highest they can roll is a 21.)

2) Scent doesn't give the ability to "smell race" or anything like that. The wolves will be able to detect him via Scent, but that won't give them a bonus to look through the disguise. They do have higher Spot checks, so they might get a chance to make Spot checks vs. the Psion.

3) He's right on the money here.

4) Whatever.

5) He needs to make a Bluff check to pretend to be dead. It's that simple.

6) Second paragraph. You can supress a psionic manifestation with a DC 15 + power level Concentration check. That's not an action. Plus, the auditory effect could come from the target, even if the check fails, and it requires a DC 10 listen check for everyone within 15 feet. Outside that range, it can't be heard.

7) If the Psion can make a Bluff check, he'll be fine. The orcs should get a +5, maybe a +10, on their Sense Motive checks. Also, the Psion needs to win Initiative, or else the orcs will attack him first.


The article kind of smells like, "Smart player ruin DM plan! DM smash!"

 

[merelycompetent]

If the only precautions the orcs take is to cluster tightly around a single bonfire, they deserve to suffer the effects of Darwinism, as applied by adventurers -- Something the article makes clear.

What the article doesn't make clear is this:

1. DMs learn from their players. A DM who doesn't learn from players' actions and plans is shorting himself. Go ahead and give the PCs their easy victory. Then come up with a few basic counters to make it more interesting next time.

2. Things aren't what they seem. Your players may be smarter than you, they may be more tactically talented than you, but they will never know as much about the encounter as you. Just think of the potential havoc if there'd been a single Doppleganger in among the orcs. Or an Outsider. Or an earth elemental, summoned by the witch doctor, hiding in the ground and helping keep watch. Or maybe an invisible stalker or three along as escort for said witch doctor.

3. Word of tactics and strategies gets around, or has already been thought of before by in-game creatures who are far smarter than the DM, the players, and the PCs all put together. Justification without metagaming: In general, if a PC comes up with a great tactic, the god-like intelligent, long-lived, movers-and-shakers of the campaign have probably thought of it or similar tactics also, and will train their troops. Or the PCs pass the tale onto bards, for free food & drinks, who immortalize the PCs exploits in song and tales... and incidentally, inform all the other orc tribes how not to be chumps.

4. Explore a little military strategy research for fun & challenges.

5. Read message boards, talk with other DMs and players, expand your horizons. I've lost track of the number of ideas inspired by, or taken directly from, other sources.

6. If nothing else, follow through with the logical consequences. What if the remaining orcs scatter out into the wilderness in groups of 5-10? Now the PCs have somewhere around 100+ orcs, scattered but not so far away that they can't signal each other, at night, in the wilderness. Good-bye rest & replenish spells/powers time; hello commando-style survival (mitigated greatly if someone has rope trick or a similar spell).

 

[Plane Sailing]

The author makes a couple of errors in pointing out the flaws.

1) If the Psion has a Disguise bonus greater than the orcs' Spot check, he can Take 10 and he won't have to roll. The orcs won't be able to roll that high. (eg. Psion has +2, and Takes 10 when he dons the Disguise. He gets a 22. Orcs have a +1 Spot check, so the highest they can roll is a 21.)

I'm guessing you mean 'Take 20' rather than 'Take 10' here, right?

 

[Agent Oracle]

I have to say that THIS is a GREAT idea!

Just remember to keep it up! As long as you challenge the players AND their characters, then a great time will be had by all. Oh, and remember, if in any given situation, you don't know what the probability of success is, it is 50%. DC 10 is your friend!