Playing Monks
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Don21584 said:
Irrelevant. 14 Wis should be quite sufficient for a character to make a good showing where that particular ability score is needed. Just because the character isn't optimised to the limits doesn't mean he's useless either; in fact, with a bit of finesse, he should be quite survivable.
Actually, this character has the potential to be very effective. All you need is support from your party, in the form of buffing spells. For example:
* Mage armor, as someone already mentioned, will boost your AC until you get some Bracers.
* Endurance and Bull's Strength will make you hit harder and increase your much-needed HP.
* Haste will be extremely useful with your extra attack and +4 AC bonus that stacks with just about everything.
* Various potions such as Invisibility, Blur, Blink will further raise your survivability in combat.
Your character can still be a tank...it'll just require prep time and a party cleric or wizard. The high STR score will be extremely useful. If you want to capitalize on your high DEX, take a feat for a good ranged weapon (such as Composite Longbow) and you can double as a competent archer when you don't want to wade into combat singlehandedly.
* Mage armor, as someone already mentioned, will boost your AC until you get some Bracers.
* Endurance and Bull's Strength will make you hit harder and increase your much-needed HP.
* Haste will be extremely useful with your extra attack and +4 AC bonus that stacks with just about everything.
* Various potions such as Invisibility, Blur, Blink will further raise your survivability in combat.
Your character can still be a tank...it'll just require prep time and a party cleric or wizard. The high STR score will be extremely useful. If you want to capitalize on your high DEX, take a feat for a good ranged weapon (such as Composite Longbow) and you can double as a competent archer when you don't want to wade into combat singlehandedly.
The suggestion to pick up a ranged weapon is a good one. If you can make a decent archer you don't need to worry that you;re not a tank.
But, given the way the character has been built, the cleric with Endurance and Shield of Faith spells is your best friend. As a primary fighter, the -1 to the monk's already-lesser d8 hit points is going to be tough to get around.
Dodge isn't a bad feat to take, if you look at it as the first step towards Spring Attack. By the time you qualify for Spring Attack, your movement is going to be double the other party members, and you'll be doing a d10 (d8? I don't have the book in front of me) for damage. Hit-and-run tactics work well in combat for the monk. Tumble in, hit, tumble away. Repeat until the bad guy's dead.
But, given the way the character has been built, the cleric with Endurance and Shield of Faith spells is your best friend. As a primary fighter, the -1 to the monk's already-lesser d8 hit points is going to be tough to get around.
Dodge isn't a bad feat to take, if you look at it as the first step towards Spring Attack. By the time you qualify for Spring Attack, your movement is going to be double the other party members, and you'll be doing a d10 (d8? I don't have the book in front of me) for damage. Hit-and-run tactics work well in combat for the monk. Tumble in, hit, tumble away. Repeat until the bad guy's dead.
I think what happened here with the Monks ability scores is a good indicator of the problems that face Monks in general. While a Fighter or Sorcerer has one major attribute and a couple minor ones, the Monk really needs to be strong in DEX, WIS and STR (if he plans on fighting much. CON would be nice too.) This puts a lot of strain on your ability scores; unless you are extremely "lucky" with your dice rolls its hard to be an effective fighter.
All the advice about Tumbling and Spring Attack is valid as far as it goes - dont get hit unnecessarily! - but you just cant stand against a big, tank creature like an Ogre or a Bear. He will rip you 10-20 points of damage the first time he hits you (which wont be long) and you'll have to Tumble back out to save yourself. (Then the Ogre is running amok among the spellcasters, while the Monk ponders the meaning of the Bushido code "Never run from a fight".) Its a lot like having a Rogue be the front line fighter because he's the "best" fighter in the party. Not a good idea. Also, Spring Attack is at least 6th level, so I wouldnt even worry about it at 2nd.
On the positive side; I think the Monk is weakest (in comparison to the rest of the party) right around 3rd level. At 4th your damage goes up to d8 and your AC increases by 1 (or 2 with a well placed attrib point.) These both make a big difference in your effectiveness; although, still, standing toe-to-toe with a Troll is a bad bad idea. Also, around 4th level you begin to see that your Skills are better than a lot of the other classes; Hide and Move Silent especially will be good for Half-Orcs. Balance isnt bad, Jump isnt bad and Tumble is awesome. (Spot is unfortunately cross-class.) If you can survive to 4th, I think Monks begins to improve. But you should find a real front-line fighter for your party.
All the advice about Tumbling and Spring Attack is valid as far as it goes - dont get hit unnecessarily! - but you just cant stand against a big, tank creature like an Ogre or a Bear. He will rip you 10-20 points of damage the first time he hits you (which wont be long) and you'll have to Tumble back out to save yourself. (Then the Ogre is running amok among the spellcasters, while the Monk ponders the meaning of the Bushido code "Never run from a fight".) Its a lot like having a Rogue be the front line fighter because he's the "best" fighter in the party. Not a good idea. Also, Spring Attack is at least 6th level, so I wouldnt even worry about it at 2nd.
On the positive side; I think the Monk is weakest (in comparison to the rest of the party) right around 3rd level. At 4th your damage goes up to d8 and your AC increases by 1 (or 2 with a well placed attrib point.) These both make a big difference in your effectiveness; although, still, standing toe-to-toe with a Troll is a bad bad idea. Also, around 4th level you begin to see that your Skills are better than a lot of the other classes; Hide and Move Silent especially will be good for Half-Orcs. Balance isnt bad, Jump isnt bad and Tumble is awesome. (Spot is unfortunately cross-class.) If you can survive to 4th, I think Monks begins to improve. But you should find a real front-line fighter for your party.
I allways felt that the top three most important attributes for a monk were Dex, Wis, Con in that order because it is not only more important to not get hit as opposed to do more damage, but it is also important to go first in combat.
The stats for this monk are not bad, just not placed the way I would have, but it is certainly a very playable character, and like most character classes without a solid focus, he will have to build towards his place in the party.
The stats for this monk are not bad, just not placed the way I would have, but it is certainly a very playable character, and like most character classes without a solid focus, he will have to build towards his place in the party.
Well, your monk is already made, but what I did with mine was have a low Str (10) and make Dex you highest ability, followed by Wisdom.
Then take weapon finesse at the first opportunity, for either unarmed attack or whatever monk weapon you are using. I took it for Unarmed Attack. Also, if allowed, swap out Deflect Arrows for Fist of Iron (S&F and OA) Your Dex now helps both your AC and attack, and Fist of Iron lets you do some extra damage when you need to. Between Fist of Iron and Stunning Attacks, you can use those abilities pretty often per day.
I would also suggest (if allowed) multiclassing into either Fighter or Rogue at 2nd level. Rogue will give you some good scouting skills AND most importantly a sneak attack for that extra damage you can do after tumbling into a flank. Fighter will give you some hit points, weapon proficiency if ya need it for a bow or whatever, and most importantly a FEAT. Multi into fighter at 2nd level and grab weapon finesse.
I think the monk works best as a stealthy scout with some combat abilities.
Then take weapon finesse at the first opportunity, for either unarmed attack or whatever monk weapon you are using. I took it for Unarmed Attack. Also, if allowed, swap out Deflect Arrows for Fist of Iron (S&F and OA) Your Dex now helps both your AC and attack, and Fist of Iron lets you do some extra damage when you need to. Between Fist of Iron and Stunning Attacks, you can use those abilities pretty often per day.
I would also suggest (if allowed) multiclassing into either Fighter or Rogue at 2nd level. Rogue will give you some good scouting skills AND most importantly a sneak attack for that extra damage you can do after tumbling into a flank. Fighter will give you some hit points, weapon proficiency if ya need it for a bow or whatever, and most importantly a FEAT. Multi into fighter at 2nd level and grab weapon finesse.
I think the monk works best as a stealthy scout with some combat abilities.
Quickbeam
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Plane Sailing said:
I like both of these ideas, and toss in some tumbling and spring attacks and you've got quite a durable character....but never a frontline brawler. Also, I just want to add my two cents regarding the attribute debate: Wis and Dex are of paramount concern for a monk, with Con and Str following thereafter IMO.
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