[Playtest 2] Races: Humans too good?

I'm actually shocked at how anyone could think that this is mathematically balanced and doesn't destabilize the "implied setting" (which there seems to be considerable incoherency as to "when" people care about coherency of implied setting).

I'm going to run through the races here right quick and try to do some back of the envelope math to display how poorly conceived some of this stuff is:

HUMANS

Assuming point buy and leveraging of point buy values for optimization:

- Every Human PC will have a 5 % or 10 % better (leveraging a base, high, odd number in primary stat to get a + 3) "to hit chance" with their primary mode of attack than all other Race's PCs. In a game where you have bounded accuracy, this is an enormous advantage.
- Every Human PC will have a 5 % edge on other Races on most (or all if the primary stat of the character is Dex) of the 7 defenses/saving throws.
- Every Human PC will have their their minimum threshold for passing a Skill Check/Ability Check improved by 5 % compared to all of the other Races.
- Every Human PC will be 5 % better than all other Races when forced to roll for a successful Skill Check/Ability Check.
- Implications of Mechanical Resolution: In every single area of the most important/most leveraged mechanical resolution areas of the game (offense, defense, task resolution), humans will be, on average and at apex, 5 % better (or more) before a die is rolled. As a single roll, this perturbation of the mechanical system is irrelevant. Stretched over the course of an adventure and then a campaign, in the aggregate, 5 % is a massive handicap. One in which DMs will have to account for when game-planning. One in which players will soon intuitively grasp...and demi-human choices for characters will recede into the background as extremely sub-optimal choices at character creation...thus dulling down the game and narrowing the scope of the fiction.
- Genre Expectations Within the Implied Setting: Human PCs are now the apex, the paragons of any ability score. No longer are they just the most versatile, now amongst their race you will count the Strongest, The most Dextrous, The most Hardy, the most Learned, the most Wise, The most Charismatic. Gone is the legendary Grace, Nimbleness and Erudition of Elves. Gone is the legendary Quickness and Guile of Halfings. Gone is the legendary Hardiness (partially...this one is pretty good) of Dwarves. Your average human settlement will be filled with average people who outdo their average demi-human counterpart in all of their established, normative genetic/evolutionary biological advantages. Not only are the advantages wiped away...but they are now relatively disadvantaged by comparison. Unprecedented within the implied setting.

If they want to go the dull route, in the stead of the grossly overpowered and implied setting curbstomp above, I would propose a + 1 to any Ability Score of their choice (simulating variety amongst species and cultural variety) and a + 1 to all Task Resolution checks and their minimum threshold (simulating the rigorous, multi-tasking nature of human communities/cultures and thus their versatile, well-roundness). Then some form of cultural focus ability with a few options would be a good idea as well.


ELVES

- Elf Weapon Training: Heritage-Driven longsword training provides a step up in damage die...which is pathetic. Assuming a normal distribution; given the trivial mean difference between these two dice and assuming a 55 % hit ratio, this damage bonus comes out to around .5ish damage per swing of the Long Sword. But wait a minute. Long Swords are not Finessable. Elves presuppose Dexterity as their leveraged (and implied setting) ability score. Therefore the 55 % needs to drop if using their heritage weapons. So its worse than .5ish damage per swing of the Long Sword. So it sounds as though we are now going to have either:

A) Battalions of elven warriors with high Strength (but 5 - 10 % less to hit and damage than your average trained human) and average Dexterity.
B) Battalions of very Dextrous elven warriors who can move about and avoid attacks reasonably enough...but can't hit the broad side of the barn and when they do, its barely worth a flinch.

Having Elf Weapon Training allow longswords to be Finessable is a good first start. I'm in awe that this made it through QC.

- Free Spirit: This is truly an abomination of an ability that looks super cool on paper but, in practice it is leveraged so in-often so as to be nothing more than color. If it was a feat it would be a "trap option." It is mechanically superfluous. I've GMed 1e - 4e for almost 25 years. I have used Charm or Sleep effects on elves a paltry 3 times. In 25 years. This is the deepest corner of all corner cases as an immunity. Immunity to an effect that is applied more than .0000007 % of the time or a bonus to a Will and Charisma Saving Throws would probably be a good idea here.

Speed Bonus of 5 feet for subrace: Decent. Schtick-centric but not so impressive. The implications of an extra 5 ft of max speed is rather paltry with a ridiculously low percentage of table time impact. A Tactical Mobility bonus (See Fighter's Shift Maneuver) would be highly applicable (high percentage of table time impact) and fit the race.

Keen Senses: Yes. Implied Setting Shtick and mechanical potency with a high percentage of table time.


DWARVES


- Dwarven Resilience: While this is a great effect, it is still a corner case (not even close to the paltry table time implications of Free Spirit...but still a corner case no less). And without their always applicable Racial Constitution Bonus advantage, this is where Dwarves are supposed to have their legendary constitution/fortitude manifest within the fiction of the implied setting?

Dwarven Weapon Training: See Elven Weapon Training minus the unbelievable non-Finessable weapon for a Dex class making it through QC.

Minimum Speed in Armor and Dwarven Toughness or Armor Mastery: Now we're talking. Ok, we're getting our implied setting Shtick back here and our mechanical balance (with respect to humans) with racial features that have potency and high percentage of table time.


HALFLINGS:

Luke warm. There is some good Implied Setting Shtick here with mechanical potency that leverages a high percentage of table time. However, there are far too many corner case abilities or duds here too.


Conclusion:

- Dwarves are about where I would want them and have their implied setting shticks wonderfully expressed by the mechanics (if they had a + 2 Con bonus or Humans only had a + 1 max).
- Elves need a lot of work and I'm not sure this race was even QCed.
- Halflings need work.
- Humans are grotesquely dull and walking Character Optimization Emporiums replete with Flashing "OP" LED Lights due to the implications of their bonuses on the math of the game (from mechanical resolution to mechanical resolution) and the ridiculously high percentage of table time in which those maths will be leveraged through a session, an adventure, and a campaign.
 

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Manbearcat,

What you're leaving out is that 20 is the maximum anyone can have in a stat. Human's have a (small) leg up on getting to that maximum, but eventually every character will get to the same point.*

At 1st level, humans have a +1 to hit (and assuming standard array, a +1 to one other stat check). At 20th level, their bonus has disappeared.

Elves, Dwarves, and halflings, their bonuses are there at 1st level and 20th level.

*this assumes that we get the regular stat progressions pas the ones at level 4 indicated in this playtest packet.
 

[MENTION=6696971]Manbearcat[/MENTION], I couldn't understand how you got 0.5 damage increase from increasing the damage dice one step. The normal distributions of 100d6 and 100d8 are separated by 100 and the 600-800 range is entirely from the d8 distribution, no?
 

Manbearcat,

What you're leaving out is that 20 is the maximum anyone can have in a stat. Human's have a (small) leg up on getting to that maximum, but eventually every character will get to the same point.*

At 1st level, humans have a +1 to hit (and assuming standard array, a +1 to one other stat check). At 20th level, their bonus has disappeared.

Elves, Dwarves, and halflings, their bonuses are there at 1st level and 20th level.

*this assumes that we get the regular stat progressions pas the ones at level 4 indicated in this playtest packet.

Just as I'm not interested in Wizards being unplayable at 1st through 2nd level being legitimized by the specter of Wizards with earth-shattering, party-marginalizing, adventure-scope-narrowing (to nearly nothing) potency at a level that represents .00000000046 % of actual gameplay...I'm not interested in there being a hypothetical bottleneck of stats at that same marginal level of play (endgame) which "lessens" (but doesn't remotely undo) the impact of all of implications of that conflict-resolution affecting math on the enormous percentage of table time and its implications to the accompanying implied setting.

Your position is especially non-compelling given that its already tenuous nature is predicated upon a built-in assumption of how attribute inflation will bear itself out as a product of level...and that it is balanced, sensible and non-implied setting perturbing because .000000000002 % of characters within the implied setting have reached that level...rather than the metric being your standard citizen of your standard culture.

On the Math: Given the bounded accuracy system and the extremely small variance/standard deviation, a + 1 (by itself) is an extreme boost in character effectiveness (potentially 3 - 7 % with upwards of 10 % at the margins)
 
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I would rather see +1 to all ability scores than a +2 to one and nothing to everything else...
This would actually be good enough, but the best human will not overshadow the best elf etc.
 

I think from a balance standpoint I think humans are fine.

But from a flavor standpoint, I agree that there is a certain "wrongness" about the old "average" humans having the best stats in the game.
 

That being said I have to agree with a lot of the previous posts that state it feels wrong. I just don't get why they went from Humans are versatile to Humans are physically and mentally superior.

Absolutely.

In 3ed human versatility was represented with a bonus feat and skill point, plus easier multiclassing.

The problem in 5e is that both feats and skill bonuses are supposed to be optional in the game, so they have to design all races in a way that would work for groups that also don't use feats and skills (in fact there are no skill bonuses in any race write-up).

One alternative that I would consider is to shift the concept of "lucky race" from halflings to humans, which would open up the option for some human racial abilities related to getting advantage (or much better, ignoring disadvantage), reroll dice or just take the maximum possible results a few times a day. If those abilties can be applied to anything (combat, skills, magic...) then you can still call it "versatility".

Otherwise the only generic things left besides ability score are: proficiencies, languages and experience points.

But some classes already get full proficiencies so it would feel like a human fighter for instance would see part of her racial traits go wasted.

Languages are not very useful in the average campaign setting, and it still doesn't feel right that all humans PCs are automatically polyglots.

That leaves with XP... how many would be willing to represent human versatility with a slightly faster level advancement?
 

Yup, I don't like the Human package as I feel that it open to abuse, dull, and just plain wrong that humans are; stronger than half orcs, tougher than dwarves and more dexterous than elves etc.

I would probably give the races +2 in their favoured stat and allow the human +1 in everything and something like Jack-of-all Trades free.
 


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