D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Paladin ... Divine Smite is a Spell now

[Stalker0]

It's almost like Counterspelling might be the actual problem element in these examples, not that smites are spells. It's not a fun tool, on either side of the screen.

Amen. One of the few spells I completely dropped from my game and never looked back. Haven't missed it for a second.

 

[Clint_L]

Yeah, I just don't see a ton of situations where someone uses a counterspell on smite. If they do, that's still probably a net win for the paladin.

 

[Clint_L]

Amen. One of the few spells I completely dropped from my game and never looked back. Haven't missed it for a second.

But I disagree with this. I love counterspell. I think it dropping a clutch counterspell is super fun for the players, and the risk of being counterspelled adds an important tension to encounters with enemy spellcasters. Look at the final battle with Vecna on Critical Role - that level 9 counterspell from Scanlan is legendary.

Plus, I just like reactive abilities in general, and this is a really powerful one.

 

[Stalker0]

Fighters get weapon mastery as well, and even more attacks. Plus they get more criticals or superiority dice or yet other stuff, and level 11 to do a bit more damage is well past the level where you should get a boost outside of a spell smite that can be easily shut down.

Smite was the only way for paladins to boost to the point of what fighters and other classes accomplish.

And paladin's get a flying horse.

Smite is absolutely not the only way that paladin's can boost their attacks. They get bless (one teh best buff spells in the game), they get +1d8 damage to all attacks, they get spiritual weapon, hell they get SPIRIT GUARDIANS for pete's sake, and that spell NEVER goes out of style.

Having both played paladins and watched players play paladins.....the class has plenty of love. Its has tankiness, utility, mobility, healing, and STILL has plenty of power.


Sorry I'm just not seeing any room for paladins' to weep here.

 

[Stalker0]

But I disagree with this. I love counterspell. I think it dropping a clutch counterspell is super fun for the players, and the risk of being counterspelled adds an important tension to encounters with enemy spellcasters. Look at the final battle with Vecna on Critical Role - that level 9 counterspell from Scanlan is legendary.

Plus, I just like reactive abilities in general, and this is a really powerful one.

And of course your welcome to. For me the counter spell was the worst spell in the game. It made my players feel like I took a dump on their Christmas, everyone of my spellcasters would get couterspelled and be even more anemic.

I can respect that your table loves it, my table hates it. I removed it and won't ever bring it back.

 

[Clint_L]

And paladin's get a flying horse.

Smite is absolutely not the only way that paladin's can boost their attacks. They get bless (one teh best buff spells in the game), they get +1d8 damage to all attacks, they get spiritual weapon, hell they get SPIRIT GUARDIANS for pete's sake, and that spell NEVER goes out of style.

Having both played paladins and watched players play paladins.....the class has plenty of love. Its has tankiness, utility, mobility, healing, and STILL has plenty of power.


Sorry I'm just not seeing any room for paladins' to weep here.

Yeah, I have to concur. If there is wide consensus about any class in 5e, it is that paladins are very strong (and I guess that monks are very not). A mild nerf to their ability to nova with smite is warranted, especially since it is compensated by making the other smite spells more useful, so it comes out feeling fair. Speaking as a regular paladin player, here.

I mean, they still get to declare the smite after they roll a natural 20, which is uniquely powerful.

 

[Mephista]

You don't get to know what spell is being cast before you counterspell it. Smite is the same as fireball which is the same as wish as far as the counterspeller knowing what spell is being cast.

Isn't this being a little bit nitpicky? Like, if you're facing someone dressed as a holy knight, is swinging a glowing sword and crying out "Die Heretic!", there's a very good chance that its a smite. Fireball, as a spell, requires a Focus, vocal components and hand gestures, usually described as pointing your hand in the direction the fireball will travel.

There's a ton of context clues that you can pick up on when it comes to spells.

 

[Maxperson]

You just said you didn't have a wizard.

The point was that any class can do a d8 with a weapon.

A lot of groups play at high level.

Sure, but something that happens at 11th level is irrelevant for the first 10 levels.

Fighters don't have the ability to force enemies to lose a 3rd level spell as a bonus action.

Neither do paladins. And Eldritch Knights are a thing.

Unless you throw a javelin or other ranged weapon.

Can't(and shouldn't be able to) smite with those.

Or hit with a topple weapon
Or hit with a slow weapon

Masteries are irrelevant since other classes get those too.

Or grapple and drag the wizard back into the zone.

Or, just walk out of the zone and hit the wizard.

Good ways to be killed by the greater threat protected by the silence, or else you'd be on the wizard already.

 

[Maxperson]

Isn't this being a little bit nitpicky? Like, if you're facing someone dressed as a holy knight, is swinging a glowing sword and crying out "Die Heretic!", there's a very good chance that its a smite. Fireball, as a spell, requires a Focus, vocal components and hand gestures, usually described as pointing your hand in the direction the fireball will travel.

There's a ton of context clues that you can pick up on when it comes to spells.

Not one of which happens in time to use counterspell. You have to use it before any of that becomes apparent.

 

[Maxperson]

And paladin's get a flying horse.

Smite is absolutely not the only way that paladin's can boost their attacks. They get bless (one teh best buff spells in the game), they get +1d8 damage to all attacks, they get spiritual weapon, hell they get SPIRIT GUARDIANS for pete's sake, and that spell NEVER goes out of style.

Having both played paladins and watched players play paladins.....the class has plenty of love. Its has tankiness, utility, mobility, healing, and STILL has plenty of power.


Sorry I'm just not seeing any room for paladins' to weep here.

I've never seen a paladin cast a spell. Bless and other concentration spells go away very quickly since paladins are melee and getting hit a lot. You're better off using the slot for damage than casting and losing bless.