D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Rogue and Cunning Strike

[UngeheuerLich]

I am wondering if those at will abilities like weapon mastery and cunning strike survive playtest as at will. Even though they are totally cool, I could see them reduced to a certain number of times per short or long rest, because they might bog down the game flow too much.

 

[TerraDave]

To clarify: Yes, a rogue can do cunning strike at range, apparently with all the options (even parry). The 13th level arcane trickster can sneak attack 1 target, then use mage hand to try to disarm or trip a second target. Both can be some distance from the trickster.

 

[Charlaquin]

I am wondering if those at will abilities like weapon mastery and cunning strike survive playtest as at will. Even though they are totally cool, I could see them reduced to a certain number of times per short or long rest, because they might bog down the game flow too much.

They shouldn’t slow it down any more than weapon masteries, which have been received very well.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

There's a lot of changes to the Rogue, and it feels good.

• Weapon mastery at level 1.
• Steady Aim added at 3 (from Tasha's -- nice to have it mainstreamed this way.)
• Reliable Talent at level 7 is huge -- So pleased for this. Combine that with Barbarian 2's Primal Knowledge, though, and whew! A Strength Rogue becomes amazing.
• Arcane Trickster will still be hurting for spells, but with no school restrictions, builds can be more interesting. THis also telegraphys what they'll do with Eldritch Knight, which is also good.
• For Thief, the clarification for using Dex to Jump is needed.

The Biggest change is the addition at level 5 of Cunning Strike, where you can "spend" sneak attack dice to get bonus effects. It's a fun choice that will be interesting each time.
Level 5 options:

• Disarm. Good, but we need explicit permission to pick up the same object in that turn (with a reaction or for free) or else it's worthless.
• Poison. I like this "basic" poison. You don't need proficiency with a poisoner's kit (fine), but surely "somewhere on your person" is too vague. What if it's in a backpack? A bag of holding? you have two light weapons in your hands? There has to be some coherent story that can emerge.
• Trip and Withdraw are both solid tactical options.

Level 13-14 options:

• Daze (2 dice) and Knock Out (6 dice) are both excellent, fun options, both targeting Constitution saves. Since you can only get one effect in any case, I'm not sure why you would choose Daze over Knock Out, though -EDIT: even though you could double up effects.
• Obscure (3 dice) to blind someone is reasonable.
• Swashbuckler gets two options at level 13: Invigorate (give someone +1d6 to attack rolls for a turn) and Parrying Stance (+1d6 AC for a turn), but both of these come too late. Parrying Stance would be good when fighting gangs for charity.

Playing a Rogue is now more fun, and has more tactical options round-by-round. That's great.

Every rogue subclass feature after 3rd comes too bloody late.

It makes it so most folks don’t even think about anything but the level 3 feature when deciding on a subclass. You won’t see another until level 9!

 

[Charlaquin]

Every rogue subclass feature after 3rd comes too bloody late.

It makes it so most folks don’t even think about anything but the level 3 feature when deciding on a subclass. You won’t see another until level 9!

Yeah, rogue was probably the class that benefited the most from standardized subclass progression, and consequently suffers the most from reverting to 2014 subclass progression. That said, it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make if it means we get this awesome Cunning Strike feature. Even with only the 5th level version, it’s a big power boost, and will be a lot of fun to play with. I’m definitely going to stress that I think the Thief’s Sneak Strike should go into the basic 5th level options though, because more than any of the others, I think that’s an ability rogues of any subclass should get access to, and shouldn’t have to wait half their adventuring career for. Like, that’s much more iconically roguish than disarming or tripping IMO. Maybe tied with poison.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, rogue was probably the class that benefited the most from standardized subclass progression, and consequently suffers the most from reverting to 2014 subclass progression. That said, it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make if it means we get this awesome Cunning Strike feature. Even with only the 5th level version, it’s a big power boost, and will be a lot of fun to play with. I’m definitely going to stress that I think the Thief’s Sneak Strike should go into the basic 5th level options though, because more than any of the others, I think that’s an ability rogues of any subclass should get access to, and shouldn’t have to wait half their adventuring career for. Like, that’s much more iconically roguish than disarming or tripping IMO. Maybe tied with poison.

Yeah tbh sneak strike feels generally rogueish while trip and disarm seem more like swashbuckler things.

But I’m fine with leaving them as is if the alt is risking the feature entirely.

I just don’t see follow up expertise as such a big deal that we can’t get subclass feature at the same level and keep everything else where it is.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah tbh sneak strike feels generally rogueish while trip and disarm seem more like swashbuckler things.

But I’m fine with leaving them as is if the alt is risking the feature entirely.

Oh, for sure. I’ll be rating the feature “very satisfied,” but using the additional comments to advocate for Sneak Strike in the base class.

I just don’t see follow up expertise as such a big deal that we can’t get subclass feature at the same level and keep everything else where it is.

Agreed.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Some other things of note:

• Assassins can apply an ongoing 2d6 poison damage with the poison cunning action starting at 13th level, and the damage ignores resistance to poison damage. Nice.

That's a good catch. Neat.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Every rogue subclass feature after 3rd comes too bloody late.

It makes it so most folks don’t even think about anything but the level 3 feature when deciding on a subclass. You won’t see another until level 9!

...and yet they decided to abandon the uniform progression of subclasses, which would have solved this.

 

[Horwath]

This is super broken at a glance and should never have passed the sniff test before making it into the UA. rogue doesn't move to gain advantage on a ranged weapon attack (Level3 feature: steady aim). Rogue trades 1d6 from sneak attack & makes that ranged attack disarm

If you do not have allies at the target, this ability is useless as the target will just spend and Object interaction to pick up the weapon.
You just wasted d6 damage for nothing

or trip the target.

It has a saving throw so you trade d6 damage to maybe reduce it's speed by half. It is good if you have allies there and initiative order is nice so you can give out advantage to your melee characters.

couple fights later the GM realizes that they are incapable of using any opponents with weapons and a few after that d&d has turned into only monsters that are incapable of being tripped as usable because this can be done every single round from tier2 on.

Third one is moving 15ft for reducing damage d6, might be good, might be worthless.