D&D (2024) Playtest 7 survey is now live.

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Nah. At worst, the follow up invocations add up to a bit too much, which isn’t the same thing. The Pact is fine.
They out-damage the melee classes, with the same melee weapons, doing the same thing the melee classes do but better. AND they have the best ranged cantrip AND they get up to 9th level spells.

They're way overtuned.
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
They out-damage the melee classes, with the same melee weapons, doing the same thing the melee classes do but better. AND they have the best ranged cantrip AND they get up to 9th level spells.

They're way overtuned.
So, others gave all the criticisms of this that I would have given in the warlock thread, so I won’t relitigate that.

But even taking your claim at face value, I’d hope you aren’t seriously suggesting that the Blade Pact invocation itself does all that. As I said, that’s feedback for the follow up invocations, ie the ones that have pact of the place as requirement, not for the pact of the blade itself.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
So, others gave all the criticisms of this that I would have given in the warlock thread, so I won’t relitigate that.

But even taking your claim at face value, I’d hope you aren’t seriously suggesting that the Blade Pact invocation itself does all that. As I said, that’s feedback for the follow up invocations, ie the ones that have pact of the place as requirement, not for the pact of the blade itself.

Oh no the base Warlock is a good class. I am purely saying there are elements of the bladelock that are overpowered. In my opinion, it's purely just Weapon Proficiencies [Edit - Meant to say Weapon Masteries] and/or the third attack that are questionable. Remove one or both of those and it's back to where I think it should be. Though I do question that Shroud spell.
 
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Parmandur

Book-Friend
Oh no the base Warlock is a good class. I am purely saying there are elements of the bladelock that are overpowered. In my opinion, it's purely just Weapon Proficiencies and/or the third attack that are questionable. Remove one or both of those and it's back to where I think it should be. Though I do question that Shroud spell.
Maybe split the two Invocations into more: make the opportunity cost greater.
 

Clint_L

Legend
Much faster than the last survey, that's for sure. Registered my strong disagreement with the changes to counterspell and my strong agreement with the changes to Eldritch Knight. Rejected Brawler as a subclass. Pointed out that Bladelock is busted.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Much faster than the last survey, that's for sure. Registered my strong disagreement with the changes to counterspell and my strong agreement with the changes to Eldritch Knight. Rejected Brawler as a subclass. Pointed out that Bladelock is busted.
I specifically noted in my survey that Clint_L's survey cannot be trusted due to an almost cultlike love of counterspell ;)
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Oh no the base Warlock is a good class. I am purely saying there are elements of the bladelock that are overpowered. In my opinion, it's purely just Weapon Proficiencies and/or the third attack that are questionable. Remove one or both of those and it's back to where I think it should be. Though I do question that Shroud spell.
Weapon Proficiencies!? Seriously!?

Dude we play very different games I guess. What on earth makes the weapon proficiencies a problem for you?

And the third attack…dude the blaster warlocks pew pew thrice a turn with EB already, 1d10+Cha+1d6 per hit, from 120ft away.

A melee warlock having a greatsword and a third attack at level 11 is just not a big deal. They’ve got crap for HP, spent more invocations than the blaster, and will lose concentration more often.

The 3rd attack isn’t needed, so I don’t care if it goes, but the weapon proficiencies need to stay. Without them, ditch the entire concept, it’s pointless.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Weapon Proficiencies!? Seriously!?

Dude we play very different games I guess. What on earth makes the weapon proficiencies a problem for you?

Woah sorry I misspoke. Weapon MASTERIES not proficiency. They get all weapon masteries and can switch that easier than any other class including Fighter.

And the third attack…dude the blaster warlocks pew pew thrice a turn with EB already, 1d10+Cha+1d6 per hit, from 120ft away.

Which is nothing compared to all the adders this Warlock playtest could add to their melee weapon attacks. Truly nothing. Literally a bladelock with a magic longbow can do more damage with that than their own EB now.

A melee warlock having a greatsword and a third attack at level 11 is just not a big deal. They’ve got crap for HP, spent more invocations than the blaster, and will lose concentration more often.

It's a massive deal. You need to run the actual numbers like Treantmonk did. Not slap-dash it together and ignore all the stuff you'd normally put on them, but really add all the feats and weapon masteries and spells and all the elements that go into a real build. You will see the damage is now through the roof.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Woah sorry I misspoke. Weapon MASTERIES not proficiency. They get all weapon masteries and can switch that easier than any other class including Fighter.
Oh jeez yeah okay that’s fair. I’m fine with the masteries, but they should have to rest to change them like everyone else, and only have a couple.

But I’m also fine with them ditching that because they’re a whole spellcaster, they don’t need martial not-cantrips.
Which is nothing compared to all the adders this Warlock playtest could add to their melee weapon attacks. Truly nothing. Literally a bladelock with a magic longbow can do more damage with that than their own EB now.
Again, see all the criticisms of the analysis that underpins this claim in the other thread.
It's a massive deal. You need to run the actual numbers like Treantmonk did. Not slap-dash it together and ignore all the stuff you'd normally put on them, but really add all the feats and weapon masteries and spells and all the elements that go into a real build. You will see the damage is now through the roof.
I’ve actually playtested it. And I am unimpressed with Treantmonk’s analysis, and find the assumptions more than questionable.

You can burn all your resources in one or two rounds and hope you don’t miss at all so none of it goes to waste, and get a really big nova, but even that isn’t because of weapon [masteries] and a third attack at level 11.
 


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