D&D (2024) Playtest: Is the Human Terrible?

[Jfdlsjfd]

No, they can't. The ouman very specifically gets to pick from the feats listed in the UA document if you are testing the ouman. That's how playtesting works.

Plus, it's explicitely written than the ouman (I prefer cuman myself) can take "1st-level feat" while the vuman can take "any feat he qualifies for". The 2014 feats don't have level restriction, so they are selectable by the vuman but no the ouman.

 

[Yaarel]

No, they can't. The ouman very specifically gets to pick from the feats listed in the UA document if you are testing the ouman. That's how playtesting works.

This is what the UA ouman says:

"
HUMAN TRAITS
Versatile. You gain the Skilled Feat or an other first level feat of your choice.

"

This is what the Players Handbook vuman says:

"
VARIANT HUMAN TRAITS
Feat. You gain one feat of your choice.

"


Therefore. According to the Rules-As-Written.

The Players Handbook feats are available at 1st level. They are all 1st level feats.

The ouman can pick any 1st level feat from the UA document or from the Players Handbook. At 4th level, the ouman can choose a 4th level feat.

Likewise, the vuman can pick any 1st level feat from the UA document or from the Players Handbook. At 4th level, the vuman can choose a 4th level feat.

The feat choice of both the vuman and the ouman are exactly the same.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

This is what the UA ouman says:

"
HUMAN TRAITS
Versatile. You gain the Skilled Feat or an other first level feat of your choice.

"

This is what the Players Handbook vuman says:

"
VARIANT HUMAN TRAITS
Feat. You gain one feat of your choice.

"


Therefore. According to the Rules-As-Written.

The Players Handbook feats are available at 1st level. They are all 1st level feats.

This is were I don't follow you. The UA feats are explicitely "first level feats". The original PHB feats don't bear this mention of being "first level feats". They are just feats, neither first-level, nor X-level, just "feats".

The fact that the vuman can take any feat, in or outside of the levelled-feats list, doesn't mean that they are first-level feats. You're assuming that any feat that can be taken at first-level is a first-level feat. Nothing explicitely supports this reading, especially since the level referred to here may be the level of the feat, like the level of spells, not the character level. Plus, there is nothing to support that any feat that one can take at first level is a 1st-level feat in the new definition. They can be outside of the "levelled feat" system altogether, this group of feat has his own restriction system (like have DEX 13 to take Stealthy).

I am pretty sure that "1st level feats" is a specific 5.5 conceit that isn't supposed to encompass all the published feats so far. On the other hand, it would be fun to have oumans taking squat nimbleness to become a 35 ft race (the requisite being dwarf or a S race, which humans are now) and complain about their advantage on opposed rolls for grappling being nerfed...

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yes, seriously. If someone tries and fails to do something multiple times, failing because it's incredibly difficult and unlikely to succeed, it's me being a realist to say, "I doubt they will succeed this time." It's also not a reflection on the intelligence of those who disagree with me. I think that it's just optimism on their part and being an optimist is not a bad thing.

I can agree with that. It's medium, but not minor.

This I strongly disagree with. It's trivial to change, but is not a trivial change. It significantly raises the power level of PCs by giving them all a free feat or two, and there's no way that a significant power increase is a minor change. This isn't even a medium change. It's a major one.

It’s 1 feat. Only the human gets a second one, and it’s from a more limited list than one of the existing humans already in the game.

Additionally, level 1 feats have been optionally in the game since Theros, and have shown up as well in Strixhaven and the UAs for Dragonlance.

And 1 feat just doesn’t change things that much, especially from a curated list like in the UA.

But class spell lists would be obvious, since that's what we have now. If they are changing it to something else, which is what, "In future Unearthed Arcana articles, we’ll show how Classes use these lists and how a Class or Subclass might gain Spells from another list." implies, then they are implying that class lists are going away.

What you are quoting from them does not imply that, though. It implies that spell organization is being restructured, and that we will see how exactly it will work for each class as we get tests for them.

Yes, they will give classes another way of interacting with the three big spell lists(categories of magic), but that will be a medium, not minor change from the individual class spell lists that have been present since 1e.

1e is irrelevant to the discussion. I disagree that it’s necessarily more than minor.

And I won’t be taking hypotheticals seriously in this context. We don’t know.

 

[Yaarel]

This is were I don't follow you.

The UA feats are explicitely "first level feats".

The original PHB feats don't bear this mention of being "first level feats". They are just feats, neither first-level, nor X-level, just "feats".

The fact that the Rules-As-Written makes the 2014 feats available at 1st-level, by definition, makes them "1st-level feats".

 

[Reynard]

The fact that the Rules-As-Written makes the 2014 feats available at 1st-level, by definition, makes them "1st-level feats".

You are just interpreting it that way. The only first level feats in all of D&D as it relates to the playtest are the ones listed under first level feats in the playtest document. Arguing otherwise is a bad faith attempt to bolster an obviously and demonstrably false position. For what I can't imagine since no one here is your DM and so can't allow you to play an OP playtest character. Internet points? Who knows.

 

[Maxperson]

Here the point is, feats are feats. Feats are a separate design space, with its own metric. The goal of the feat design space is to be roughly comparable in value to a +2 ability score improvement.

That is their stated intent, but much like backwards compatibility, it's a pipedream for them. They have consistently failed to make feats that were all close to the same level of power for 3 editions. So while they might want them all to equal a +2 ability score improvement, they don't.

The choice of feat for vuman and ouman is exactly the same!

It would be in the dream land where all feats are equal to +2 stat bonus.

(By the way, in this case, I agree with updating the flat +5 bonus to Alert initiative, to be +pro bonus instead. But since both the vuman and ouman can take it, the vuman and ouman feat choice is identical.)

The two feats are anything but identical.

 

[Parmandur]

You are just interpreting it that way. The only first level feats in all of D&D as it relates to the playtest are the ones listed under first level feats in the playtest document. Arguing otherwise is a bad faith attempt to bolster an obviously and demonstrably false position. For what I can't imagine since no one here is your DM and so can't allow you to play an OP playtest character. Internet points? Who knows.

Actually, the Strixhaven Feats, and likely the Dragonlance Feats based on the UA, were delineated by Level as well.

 

[Yaarel]

The two feats are anything but identical.

But the two versions where the human can pick either feat are identical.

 

[Reynard]

Actually, the Strixhaven Feats, and likely the Dragonlance Feats based on the UA, were delineated by Level as well.

I did not know that because I don't own Strixhaven, which should come as no surprise to anyone.