Please rate Energy Substitution

[smetzger]

Energy Substitution [Metamagic]

REQ: Any other metamagic feat, 5 ranks in Knowledge (arcana)

Choose one type of energy: acid, cold, electricity, fire or sonic. You can modify a spell with an energy designator to use the chosen type of energy instead. A substituted spell works normally in all respects except the type of damage dealt. A substituted spell uses a spell slot of the spell’s normal level, modified by any other metamagic feats. You can gain this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a different type of energy. Tome and Blood, pg 40.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

It helps avoid energy resitances, and maybe target things for double damage more often. Nice but since they aren't that common not a huge thing. I think its really good for a sorcerer who has there limited number of known spells, much less useful for a wizard. The sonic version is nice IMO mainly because it allows spells to be more destructive to items and terain.

Overall though it applies to a small group of spells in a limited situation so even with its +0 cost to spell levels its feat cost balances it benefits nicely.(cmpare to MM feats at least, MM feats need a rewrite badly) Its great if its what your looking for, because of building an elementalist or to broden a sorcerers spell list, otherwise just ok at best.

 

[Celebrim]

I really have problems with turning all damage into sonic. Other than that, fun feat with a good concept and not overly powerful or overly weak.

 

[Pax]

I voted it a 9.

-1 for Wizards (an 8) who have to cheese their way with ESub[Sonic], or hope to god they guessed right.

+1 for Sorcerors, who should have EVERY ESub out there, if they can manage it (if not, at least have a couple!) ... what sort of element is the enemy vulnerable to? *poof* everything the Sorceror throws, is that element.

 

[Murrdox]

I also voted it a "9".

I think the "sonic" substitution is cheap though, and I don't allow it, because it changes aspects of the spell. As some people have said, sonic energy is more effective against objects and terrain and such.

Since an energy subsituted spell has no + to the spell level, none of the "alternate" energy types should give the spell any extra abilities that it wouldn't have otherwise. If a Sonic Fireball has more effects than a normal Fireball, you haven't "substituted" anything... you've added to the effects of the spell. Plus, I also agree that taking Sonic just because fewer monsters are immune to it is a cheesy tactic.

So I don't let my players take Sonic.

Otherwise, this is a great feat.

 

[orbitalfreak]

Voted 9. Absolutely a must-have for Sorcerers, and is still very nice for Wizards. Never considered it for other classes, but they may find some use here and there with it.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I think poeple are seriously over-rating this feat. Unless your doing some against the demons style campaign or some other heavily themed game where most opponents have elemental resistances this feat just isn't that great. It effects how many of your sorcerer's spells, 3,4, 6 what? And in how many encoutners does it make a difference?

I may be missing them but where is this huge glut of monsters with fire res, or other elemental res. If your only elemental spell effect is fire this helps a bit because creatures and spells might make it more common for this to have an effect.

And besides if push comes to shove who doesn't have magic missile to fall back on if you for some reason only learned attack spells of one element.

And taking multiple of these feats, yeesh I don't got nearly enough feats to burn on my sorceres to try that out.

 

[Merlion]

Hmmm....and again almost no one makes any issue of roleplaying or flavour value..
I gave it a 9. Its wonderful for making an elementalist or a character who likes to play around with spells, and it can be quite handy tacticaly especialy if you know what your up against.
Dont really see what the big deal about sonic is though...it deals full damage to objects. Many different spell/energy combo's have effects that should be altered with a different energy type.

 

[Pax]

I think poeple are seriously over-rating this feat. Unless your doing some against the demons style campaign or some other heavily themed game where most opponents have elemental resistances this feat just isn't that great. It effects how many of your sorcerer's spells, 3,4, 6 what? And in how many encoutners does it make a difference?

Do the Orcs, Drow, Goblins, or evne Skeletons and zombies never make use of the magic items determined to be in their treasure? Like, say, a Ring of Fire Resistance ... ?

Is there never a spellcaster among your opponents, ready and willing to cast Protection from Elements?

One sorceror I had -- the campaign was starting with the Sunless Citadel module; during the fight with the Druid at the end, he saw my wee 3d-level Sorceror toss a couple Ice Knife spells. So, he cast Protection form Elements [Cold].

Sicne my sorceror could see him, and ID'd the spell with spellcraft, I just switched gars, and applied my Elemental Substitution [Electric], bypassing his spell quite nicely (the look of dismay on the GM's face was priceless, he didn't realise at the time I could ID his spell from where I was ... heh).

I may be missing them but where is this huge glut of monsters with fire res, or other elemental res. If your only elemental spell effect is fire this helps a bit because creatures and spells might make it more common for this to have an effect.

Actually, there are plenty of [Fire]-subtype creatures out there, of comparably low CR. Mephits, a small Elemental, etc.

And besides if push comes to shove who doesn't have magic missile to fall back on if you for some reason only learned attack spells of one element.

What's better against a Fire Elemental, 5d4+5 [force] or 10d6[cold] ... ?

And taking multiple of these feats, yeesh I don't got nearly enough feats to burn on my sorceres to try that out.

It's an issue of style, to take multiples. You can chuck spells of any element; you pick element-damage spells based on their OTHER effects (i.e. continuing damage for Melf's, the 1-point radius of damage form Ice Knife, and so on). Or for area. Or, of course, sheer damage dice.

And you let your feat(s) do the Element-shuffle, always ensuring that you can get through the "hole" in the enemy's elemental resistance(s).

Posted by Merlion:
Hmmm....and again almost no one makes any issue of roleplaying or flavour value..
I gave it a 9. Its wonderful for making an elementalist or a character who likes to play around with spells, and it can be quite handy tacticaly especialy if you know what your up against.

I agree. One of the "thematic styles" for Sorcerors that I'm fond of, is all five EnSub feats (with Empower; works best for human sorcerors). Granted, you won't get thee until 12th levle, and won't do diddly besides in terms of feats ... but then you get maximise at 15th, twin at 18th, and then go on into epic levels.

Dont really see what the big deal about sonic is though...it deals full damage to objects.

Well, the ig dealis, very few things are [sonic]-resistant, so it's a BIT cheesy -- not enough IMO to warrant banning the feat at all ... but enough to make EnSub[sonic] by FAR the most common choice of the 5 possible variations.

My fix was to make EnSub[Sonic] require any OTHER EnSub feat as an additional prerequisite.

Many different spell/energy combo's have effects that should be altered with a different energy type.

That'd be nice, but ... it'd take an entire sourcebook (maybe PHB sized!) to cover just the spells published to date ... once for each alternate element, plus the original version (for reference).

It'd be nice, but ... it's just plain too much work IMO.

 

[CRGreathouse]

It's powerful. I wish that it could do any element (so people would take more than just sonic) and that it was +1 level to balance.

That would make it a must-have for sorcerers, but them's the breaks.