Please rate the Shadowdancer

[Tar-Edhel]

I don't have MM1 with me right now, but I'm sure it says the same.

It does. Incorporeality MM1 p.6

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Sounds like the 2nd edition thieves ability to hide in shadows. Whats so wrong about that?

personally I think the only problem is its placement at 1st level. As people have mentioned the SD benefits duplicate a lot of rogue abilities,so you ferequently see a rogue take it for jsut one elvel for HIPS. Kinda lame IMO, but very effective.

I also think what they should of done is have mutliple abilties available at each elvel and you get to choose 1 of them. That way rogues could take things that they didn't already have, like amybe another d6 sneak attack here and there.

Overall its a potent class with lots of flavor and I give it a 7.

 

[Storminator]

Sounds like the 2nd edition thieves ability to hide in shadows. Whats so wrong about that?

It's actually a "hide near shadows." If there is a shadow within 10 feet you can hide in the middle of the room. With only a -5 penalty for hiding while moving, the shadowdancer can walk around hiding all over the place.

Considering that at mid to high levels you can get your hide check around +20 or so, HIPS is better than invisibility in a lot of cases.

PS

 

[Li Shenron]

It's actually a "hide near shadows." If there is a shadow within 10 feet you can hide in the middle of the room. With only a -5 penalty for hiding while moving, the shadowdancer can walk around hiding all over the place.

from SRD: As long as they are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, shadowdancers can hide themselves from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind.

Actually I thought it meant to be "inside" the shadow, and at least 10ft from the edge, "inside enough".

 

[Celebrim]

Li Shenron: Well, that would be alot less broken but that is not what it said. The English language is kinda tricky here, but it is not vague. If the sentence read, 'As long as they are 10 feet within some sort of shadow...', you would be right. As it reads, it really is 'hide near shadow'. Tell me where there isn't a shadow within 10'? Noon on flat open erg?

And I agree with the general sentiments; the biggest problem with Shadow Dancer is HIPS, and especially HIPS at first level when it can be front ended.

 

[Li Shenron]

If the sentence read, 'As long as they are 10 feet within some sort of shadow...', you would be right. As it reads, it really is 'hide near shadow'. Tell me where there isn't a shadow within 10'? Noon on flat open erg?

In this case it seems very weird that the author has thought such a thing... what sense it makes at all? How could he explain why a SD has such an ability?

Maybe my english is not good enough, or maybe it's me who wanted to read it in that way from the start.

My language restrictions forbid me to disagree too much, but rather I would like to know if in your (and everybody else's) opinion it makes sense for the SD to hide in bright light just because there's shadow nearby (such as being in a totally flat desert at noon, drop a coin not further than 10ft away and hide becuase of its shadow!).

...I still think it was supposed to mean something like "blending" with a (large enough) shadow, and in fact it says without anything to actually hide behind, but doesn't mention dimensions.

Please let me know what you think!

 

[LuYangShih]

Hide in plain sight works so that, as long as you are near a shadow, you can hide. It's very, very abusable and it's best to houserule it. That's the only major problem of the class, as far as I can see, other than possible Shadow companion abuse.

 

[Li Shenron]

Hide in plain sight works so that, as long as you are near a shadow, you can hide. It's very, very abusable and it's best to houserule it. That's the only major problem of the class, as far as I can see, other than possible Shadow companion abuse.

Has Monte Cook (author of the PrCl if I suppose well) ever commented on this? Has anybody sent him a questioning email? Or do we just suppose this is what he meant when he wrote the Shadowdancer?

 

[0-hr]

Damn I'm sick of all these "rate such-and-such" threads. What does it have to do with rules?

 

[Li Shenron]

I was going to propose that all smetzger's poll get a new specific forum, at least to thank him for his regular effort in proposing them to us since a long time