Please test Grapple

[Lizard]

I can confirm the above. No "opportunity attacks", multiple rolls, size modifiers, or anything like that.

What I am not sure about is what happens when "grabed". I know that imoblization (from say a trap) does not mean parilyzation, you can still do other stuff. Can you use powers when grabbed? Don't know.

Two Frost Giants talking:
"Hey, Juri. Why are you not smashing the little pests?"
"Can't, Sven. There is a halfling on my ankle."
"So?"
"I am grappled, Sven. I cannot move so long as he is there."
"He is smaller than your cat!"
"Does not seem to matter."
"Can you not kick him off?"
"Tried, but he has about the same combat modifiers as me, and my great size and mighty thews do not seem to help."
"Oh. Well, good luck with that."
"Yeah. Thanks, Sven. Don't let one grab you. It is embarassing."
"I will tell no one of your plight. I swear by Ymir!"
"You are a good friend, Sven."

 

[Lizard]

I think that is about what we should have expected from the rest of the previews. It seems to fit with the 4E design philosophy that if something isn't 'fun', then it should just be removed from the game.

There's a problem with this. They're not removing the unfun, at least in this case. They're adding to it.

A halfling grappling a frost giant as easily as he grapples a pixie (assuming all of equal level and thus roughly-equivalent attack bonuses, AC, etc) isn't fun. It makes it impossible to believe in the game even as a cinematic swashbuckling adventure.

Cinematic Swashbuckling Fun: Captain Jack tries to grapple wossname, the giant storm goddess type...Callisto. He gets booted back, rolls 60 feet, stands up, quips, and tries something else.

Unfun: Captain Jack tries to grapple Callisto. He succeeds. She stands there paralyzed because he's got her by the big toe.

 

[HeinorNY]

I think that is about what we should have expected from the rest of the previews. It seems to fit with the 4E design philosophy that if something isn't 'fun', then it should just be removed from the game.

Exactly. That much fun can't be good to health. I hope thay add some boring rules just keep our sanity.

 

[Eldorian]

Two Frost Giants talking:
"Hey, Juri. Why are you not smashing the little pests?"
"Can't, Sven. There is a halfling on my ankle."
"So?"
"I am grappled, Sven. I cannot move so long as he is there."
"He is smaller than your cat!"
"Does not seem to matter."
"Can you not kick him off?"
"Tried, but he has about the same combat modifiers as me, and my great size and mighty thews do not seem to help."
"Oh. Well, good luck with that."
"Yeah. Thanks, Sven. Don't let one grab you. It is embarassing."
"I will tell no one of your plight. I swear by Ymir!"
"You are a good friend, Sven."

I had a giggle. Though to be fair, a halfling with the grapple mod of a frost giant would be a god compared to Royce Gracie.

 

[Zephrin the Lost]

From what I get from SWSE, being grabbed is a minor inconvenience that does no damage, so the 'grabber' and his allies better have a good follow up planned.

BUT if you take feats to get better at it, you are pinning people and crushing them in all your Wookie glory.

This seems fine to me. It's simple, quick, and not the toll of doom for small characters or casters (or small casters!) like it used to be but someone can still choose to invest in the grapple feats and become that terror.

--Z

 

[Lizard]

I had a giggle. Though to be fair, a halfling with the grapple mod of a frost giant would be a god compared to Royce Gracie.

In 3x, sure.

In 4e, it seems it will be a standard attack. Assuming the halfling and the giant are the same level, it will be 50/50 or so to succeed. If there's a Strength modifier involved, the giant *might* have a chance, but without a size mod as well, it's going to lead to some silliness...I mean, more than is usual for D&D.

Then again, as others have noted, we're only seeing a subset of the rules, still, and the monsters we've seen seem to all be roughly human size. So there might well still be size mods.

I am suspecting we will see a 'Grapple Talent Tree' or the like, so that while anyone can 'grab and hold', all the Cool Stuff requires talent picks.

 

[Pale Jackal]

I don't know about 4e, but that sure as hell is my gaming philosophy.

Quoted for truth.

Though I do hope big monsters get a bonus. The small/medium difference I'm less concerned with.

 

[Eldorian]

I am suspecting we will see a 'Grapple Talent Tree' or the like, so that while anyone can 'grab and hold', all the Cool Stuff requires talent picks.

Which, if you think about it, is more realistic. It takes training to be able to effectively grapple, as you can see if you watch the early UFCs. In the modern sport, the fighters are much better, and all of them know how to grapple, but in the early days, you had fights where only one of the fighters was a grappler, and they were pathetic on the part of the boxer/karate whatever guys.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I don't know about 4e, but that sure as hell is my gaming philosophy.

Speak for yourself. I, for one, love doing things that aren't fun. The more I hate doing something, the more I love it! I'm a serious gamer.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

The problem, as indicated by your quotes is that the designers have as idiosyncratic a definition of fun as they have of cool.

Heironeous is boring. Really? Bahamut is cool. Really?
Melora (who the $%&! is that?) is cool. Uh huh? Meiliki, Obad Hai, and Ehlonna are not. Uh huh.

I thought that 3.0 and 3.5 grappling actually were fun. What was less fun: Improved Grab (or at least the mechanics for it), Constrict, Rake, unclear rules for natural weapons in a grapple, and grapple being its own bonus set that wasn't effected by bless, negative levels, or pretty much anything else (except for size and strength modifying abilities). Grab does not seem like a very fun--or even useful--mechanic to me.

I think that is about what we should have expected from the rest of the previews. It seems to fit with the 4E design philosophy that if something isn't 'fun', then it should just be removed from the game.