Please test Grapple

[Dausuul]

In 3x, sure.

In 4e, it seems it will be a standard attack. Assuming the halfling and the giant are the same level, it will be 50/50 or so to succeed. If there's a Strength modifier involved, the giant *might* have a chance, but without a size mod as well, it's going to lead to some silliness...I mean, more than is usual for D&D.

Then again, as others have noted, we're only seeing a subset of the rules, still, and the monsters we've seen seem to all be roughly human size. So there might well still be size mods.

I am suspecting we will see a 'Grapple Talent Tree' or the like, so that while anyone can 'grab and hold', all the Cool Stuff requires talent picks.

Personally, I'd be inclined to house-rule that you can grab anything regardless of size... but if it's strong enough that your weight does not exceed its encumbrance limit, it can choose to walk off with you still hanging onto it. This provides a nice way to resolve the weirdly common situation--at least in my games--where the party fighter tries to grab hold of a big flying monster as it swoops past, and hang on with one hand while hacking at it with the other.

(This typically ends in the fighter taking a lot of falling damage and is frequently fatal, but most players gung-ho enough to try this maneuver in the first place consider it an excellent way to go.)

 

[Celebrim]

I don't know about 4e, but that sure as hell is my gaming philosophy.

There is nothing wrong with it as a philosophy, just so long as you have perfect agreement over what is fun.

All I'm saying is that since the designers have decided what is fun for me, I don't get to decide for myself.

 

[Toryx]

I always thought that grapple in 3.5 was fun. I understood that there were problems with it, and I got the general idea about the complexity (thought that never bothered me) that WotC wanted to resolve, but I was looking forward to seeing what they were going to do with it. Since so much of the initial marketing material focused on grapple as one of the areas that would be fixed with 4e I thought they would, y'know, fix it.

Cutting a gordian knot does not constitute, in my mind, a fix.

On the other hand, if this is something that the majority of the players like, then I guess they made the right decision.

Granted, it's possible that they did go with super simplistic rules for the con. Maybe there are more complex rules in the PHB or DMG but I will believe that when I see it.

 

[Midknightsun]

There is nothing wrong with it as a philosophy, just so long as you have perfect agreement over what is fun.

All I'm saying is that since the designers have decided what is fun for me, I don't get to decide for myself.

I think it is more that what they have decided on, systematically, is not fun for you. I'm sorry for that. Really, I wish 4e could be what you and some others here wanted. It sucks that the 4e philosophy isn't working for you, but I highly doubt they went to work one day and said,

"Hey, you know that Celebrim guy?"

"yeah?"

"Let's mess with him."

"Like how?"

"Well, I think we need to teach him a lesson and show him how he should play D&D."

"Really? What'd he ever do to us?"

"Dunno. I just feel like screwing someone over. Seemed like as good a target as any."

*shrug* "Okay, good enough for me."

 

[Piratecat]

There is nothing wrong with it as a philosophy, just so long as you have perfect agreement over what is fun.

All I'm saying is that since the designers have decided what is fun for me, I don't get to decide for myself.

Celebrim, maybe that's an issue for another thread? I'd rather not have this one derailed.

 

[Stoat]

Two Frost Giants talking:
"Hey, Juri. Why are you not smashing the little pests?"
"Can't, Sven. There is a halfling on my ankle."
"So?"
"I am grappled, Sven. I cannot move so long as he is there."
"He is smaller than your cat!"
"Does not seem to matter."
"Can you not kick him off?"
"Tried, but he has about the same combat modifiers as me, and my great size and mighty thews do not seem to help."
"Oh. Well, good luck with that."
"Yeah. Thanks, Sven. Don't let one grab you. It is embarassing."
"I will tell no one of your plight. I swear by Ymir!"
"You are a good friend, Sven."

I see it more like this:

"Hey, Juri. Why are you not smashing the little pests?"
"Aargh! Can't you see this halfling stuck in my hair? He climbed up my back and won't let go! He fights like a wildcat! He's trying to poke me in the eye! For Ymir's sake, get it off, get it off, getitoff!"
"Oh. Well, good luck with that."
"Aargh!"

After all, a halfling capable of successfully grappling a Frost Giant is probably a high-Heroic tier/low-Paragon tier character. He should be capable of remarkable feats of derring-do.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Speak for yourself. I, for one, love doing things that aren't fun. The more I hate doing something, the more I love it! I'm a serious gamer.

LOL.

 

[frankthedm]

IIRC the star wars grab rules did factor size and besides, the game still has a DM. Even if ther ain't rules for it, at my table, a huge giant won't be stopped by a clinging halfling.

 

[Incenjucar]

See, this is just making me think of Mickey Mouse and the various Giants he fought.

 

[Generico]

In SWSE, grab is an attack roll that can only be attempted against an opponent up to one size category larger than you. Grappling is a separate thing and requires at least one feat (pin, trip, or throw) in order to use. Grappling applies a size modifier, and its effects are based on the feat(s) you use for the grapple check. Perhaps grappling is similar in 4e.