Podcast #254: Can the GM Cheat?

MNblockhead · Jun 24, 2023

Haven't listened to this episode yet. Playing it in the background now as I prepare for my evening game.

The way I run my main D&D 5e campaign. Yes. The DM can cheat. I roll my dice in the open. I stick to RAW plus my written homebrew. As the referee I obviously have to make judgements often on the fly but I not only allow a bit of rules lawyering, I expect it. I need the players to help me keep on top of the rules. We are all showing up to play a game and the rules are part of what make it a game. We lean to a more tactical style of play and the collaborative story-telling is created by the players decisions and how the dice roll.

Blue · Jun 24, 2023

I haven't listened to the podcast, but this always struck me as a false question.

Any one of the hobbyists (can't use the word "player" here) around the table can cheat.

If a D&D 5e DM fudges dice, is it cheating? No, it's listed in the DMG as a valid technique. If they change a rule to fit a circumstance, is it cheating? No, the rules allow the DM to do that. Just because doing things that might be considered cheating in other games does not mean they are cheating in a game where the DM is following the rules to be allowed to change the rules. To cheat is pretty dang hard, such as applying a rule differently to two different PCs in the same aspect. "Well, a fireball only does 5d6 to my significant other's character who's low on HPs, but it does the normal 8d6 to Chris."

Other games don't offer that. For example, it's absolutely clear in a PbtA game that the GM can cheat. They are constrained in many ways, both in what they can't do and in what they must do. Breaking either of these is a GM cheating.

So a GM can cheat in any game, that's never actually been a question except to GMs who have been raised to having 100% authorial and rule control. And even for them, it's a question of optics, the "can they cheat" has always only had a positive answer.

Bagpuss · Jun 25, 2023

When a player asks why I changed a hit into a crit, I'll remind them that it is divine intervention.

Milieu · Jun 25, 2023

David Frost: So what in a sense, you're saying is that there are certain situations, and a crit that would one-shot a PC is one of them, where the GM can decide that it's in the best interests of the game or something, and cheat.

Richard Nixon: Well, when the GM does it, that means that it is not cheating.

Selganor · Jun 25, 2023

Speaking of correcting typos and cheating.

I remember one notable typo in the "Lich Lords" book, where a group of liches (the antagonists of the adventure) reappeared and at first were in a weakened state but if they got time to recover they were more powerful.
One place was their hp which were noted like 100-300 but for the last one they missed the "-" so the hp were 100600.
Of course the gm noticed that typo but when the players (knowing that this was the last and most powerful lich) came into the fight with everything they got and hit him for 2000 damage(!) in the first round the gm decided to ignore his observation of the typo and just take the hp as written.

I think the group survived 2-3 rounds but the fight was "rewound" with the agreement that the players would keep the fight "civil"

PJ Coffey · Jun 25, 2023

Selganor said:
Speaking of correcting typos and cheating.

I remember one notable typo in the "Lich Lords" book, where a group of liches (the antagonists of the adventure) reappeared and at first were in a weakened state but if they got time to recover they were more powerful.
One place was their hp which were noted like 100-300 but for the last one they missed the "-" so the hp were 100600.
Of course the gm noticed that typo but when the players (knowing that this was the last and most powerful lich) came into the fight with everything they got and hit him for 2000 damage(!) in the first round the gm decided to ignore his observation of the typo and just take the hp as written.

I think the group survived 2-3 rounds but the fight was "rewound" with the agreement that the players would keep the fight "civil"

If they're gonna drop 2k damage they clearly spent resources to do it!

In the final session of a Dark Heresy campaign I was in, a Chaos Space Marine showed up.

I burnt through 3 points of my 26 Toughness and then rolled quite well, 66 points of damage, through armour, to head and chest. Turns out they're tough but they're not that tough.

My point being that I'd always favour characters pulling out the stops when the chips are on the line.

But, that aside, thanks very much for listening!

PJ Coffey · Jun 25, 2023

Blue said:
I haven't listened to the podcast, but this always struck me as a false question.

I have always said that DMs are players too but I think this episode revealed unspoken assumptions that include they're not the same sort of player and how deep that goes.

Blue · Jun 25, 2023

PJ Coffey said:
I have always said that DMs are players too but I think this episode revealed unspoken assumptions that include they're not the same sort of player and how deep that goes.

Absolutely. DMs are playing the game as well, just in a different role than the others. We obscure that a little bit by labelling the others "players", which implies the DM isn't playing.

Selganor · Jun 25, 2023

PJ Coffey said:
If they're gonna drop 2k damage they clearly spent resources to do it!

Certainly not. That was way back when we "improved" our BECMI-D&D campaigns with spells and magic items from AD&D 1st.
Those two are not meant to mix (we killed the tarrasque in 2 rounds at 12th/13th(?) level)

Podcast #254: Can the GM Cheat?

#254: Can the GM Cheat? | Morrus’ Unofficial Tabletop RPG Talk

Darryl Mott

MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Bagpuss

Legend

Milieu

Explorer

Selganor

Adventurer

PJ Coffey

PJ Coffey (they/them)