Point Blank Shot and Far Shot

[Shard O'Glase]

Oh and don't forget how deadly this past 30' range thing could be when you have a rogue with the mounted combat, and mounted archery feats, and he is riding an invisible horse. He'd get a full attacks worth of sneak attacks and still get the horse movement away.

 

[jontherev]

You can take a double move, in a straight line, and then attack. You cannot take a move, double move, and attack. The double move counts as the movement portion of your round.

Actually, to be picky, you can't double move and attack in the same round without something like haste or expert tactician as far as I know. You CAN charge though. Can someone else confirm whether or not the other poster was correct in his statement about being able to MOVE, then CHARGE, and ATTACK in 1 round? We've been playing it the last 1.5 years that the charge takes up your whole movement for the round and you don't get to move your speed before the charge begins. I don't think that is right, but I've been wrong before...once, long ago. Just kidding.

 

[Magnus]

rather than repeat stuff that i've said already with more flowery language, i (re)submit the following:

originally posted by Magnus
it is clearly obvious that in certain specific situations this can be abused. but that happens to the core rules as well. isn't that, after all, what the numerous smackdown threads are about after all? keep in mind that any are that one focuses on too much means that there are a myriad of others that they're ignoring.

in addition, i'd like to add:

for every "killer" technique you can come up with, there are a half dozen counter attacks that can be employed against it. might i remind you that, you don't automatically get sneak attack damage with your attacks. in fact, after the first attack, you're quite likely to get royally FUBARed by the pissed off recipient and quite likely his/her friends. now you've spent all of your efforts at becoming the ultimate archer. you'd better have some contingency plan or at least friends of your own when your victim comes a'runnin'. coz you're likely to not be that good at hand-to-hand.

it was also pointed out that the situation is made worse when magic is added. well ... um ... is it just me, or can magic be added to the defender/s as well? also, where is this rule that says only wizards can deal out massive damage at higher levels? as if killing someone outright with a spell is any more balanced than having to roll to hit. it seems to be widely accepted that a hihg level wizard can take just about any other class of similar level.

so does anyone have anything to add beyond: "if i take 1 level of this and 3 of that, and 4 of this PrC and add these boots, and those bracers and this bow and them arrows i'll be unstoppable" i'd really like to hear it.

 

[S'mon]

Actually, to be picky, you can't double move and attack in the same round without something like haste or expert tactician as far as I know. You CAN charge though. Can someone else confirm whether or not the other poster was correct in his statement about being able to MOVE, then CHARGE, and ATTACK in 1 round? We've been playing it the last 1.5 years that the charge takes up your whole movement for the round and you don't get to move your speed before the charge begins. I don't think that is right, but I've been wrong before...once, long ago. Just kidding.

Move is a move-equivalent action, 30' move with spd 30'.

Charge is a standard action as per the PHB pg 124, which includes a 60' move with spd 60'.

Therefore if your actions for the round are move & charge you can move a total of 90' and attack. You can do a move-equivalent & a standard action in one round, whatever Hong says.

Charge is not a full-round action, incidentally it doesn't provoke an AoO from the person charged, unless they have the hold-the-line feat.

 

[S'mon]

This is from the unreleased part of the SRD, and it contradicts the PHB, which describes Charge as a "special" standard action.

The PHB takes precedence over the SRD.

Agreed - someone wasn't reading the PHB closely and mucked up the description of the charge action in the SRD - it's neither a full-round action, neither does it necessarily provoke an AoO. It's wise to avoid quoting the SRD without bothering to refer to the PHB.

 

[IceBear]

I with jon here, I don't think you're allowed to move 30ft and then charge 60ft in one round. That effectively increases the charging range to 90ft which is against the intend of the rules on charging. While charging isn't a Full Round Action (as this would only normally allow a 5ft step before, after, or during the action) I think it is a Special Full Round action in that you get to move twice your movement rate and still attack.

IceBear

 

[S'mon]

I with jon here, I don't think you're allowed to move 30ft and then charge 60ft in one round. That effectively increases the charging range to 90ft which is against the intend of the rules on charging. While charging isn't a Full Round Action (as this would only normally allow a 5ft step before, after, or during the action) I think it is a Special Full Round action in that you get to move twice your movement rate and still attack.

IceBear

You can Rule 0 that it's a full round action in your game. That doesn't change the fact that it's stated to be a standard action in the PHB, not a full-round action. I don't see where you get this 'intent' from - NB the charger's -2 AC penalty is exactly the same as a running character's -2 AC penalty, who gets x4 move.

BTW your comment on a 5' step with a full round charge action is nonsensical since the 5'-step rule only applies when there is no other movement. Since a charge involves movement, no 5' step.

 

[IceBear]

The PHB says that it's a SPECIAL action.

Honestly, I am sure that somewhere in the book it states that a charge is 2X your movement rate plus an attack and a partial charge is 1X your movement rate plus attack. To allow a movement before your charge is effectively allowing you to take a 3X movement plus an attack - that's the "against the intent of the rule" I'm talking about.

I don't feel that I am Rule 0ing it....I think you are. Myself, jon, and (I think) hong all play it the way I'm describing.

IceBear

I had to edit out some stuff about a Full Round Action because I misread Caliban's post about Special action.

 

[hong]

You can Rule 0 that it's a full round action in your game. That doesn't change the fact that it's stated to be a standard action in the PHB, not a full-round action. I don't see where you get this 'intent' from - NB the charger's -2 AC penalty is exactly the same as a running character's -2 AC penalty, who gets x4 move.

Running characters lose their Dex bonus to AC. They gain an effective +2 bonus against ranged attacks (the attacker gets a -2 on their attack roll).

And charging is, as said, a special action in that it doesn't follow the usual rules for actions and moving. When charging, you can move up to double your speed in a straight line. That seems fairly clear-cut to me.

 

[jontherev]

Nope

Move is a move-equivalent action, 30' move with spd 30'.

Charge is a standard action as per the PHB pg 124, which includes a 60' move with spd 60'.

Therefore if your actions for the round are move & charge you can move a total of 90' and attack. You can do a move-equivalent & a standard action in one round, whatever Hong says.

Charge is not a full-round action, incidentally it doesn't provoke an AoO from the person charged, unless they have the hold-the-line feat.

"Move-Equivalent Action: Move-equivalent actions take the place of movement in a standard action or take the place of an entire partial action. The combatant can normally also take a 5 foot step.

Standard Action: A standard action allows a combatant to do something and move a combatant's indicated speed during a combat round. A combatant can move before or after performing the activity of the action."

You can't do both a M-E action AND a standard action in one round without being hasted. Charge is a standard action and that's ALL you can do in one round. You move UP TO double your speed and attack once. And that's it. You don't have an additional move-equivalent action left to move your speed unless you are hasted. If you have been playing this way, you are giving all of your players haste essentially. This is quite clear from the rules I quoted above.