Point Blank Shot and Far Shot

[kreynolds]

Is there anyone who thinks this is a bad idea?

If the intended extension to range also covers sneak attack, count me out.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

opening up the range to a distance of sneak attacks from 30 feet to 45 feet REALLY hurts small characters.

when your base speed is only 20 feet - your double move distance is 40 - and your charge distance is 80 feet.

If that archer has a sneak attack range of 45 feet I HAVE to charge him in order to close to melee without Him getting a full round of sneak attack on my short butt.

If you want to demonstrate the abuseability this - get the archer a base move of 40 feet, and have a gnome with a base speed of 20 feet. A single level of barbarian can do this - as well as 3+ levels of monk.

The archer can take a partial action to move 40 feet - and shoot, while the little guy has to keep trying to take a double move action just to try and catch up - and MUST charge to get in a melee attack.

This is before you start slinging spells around like expeditious retreat, slow, haste... and worst of all -

What happens when the archer manages to get shot on the run?

Trust Me - an elven rogue/monk can do a WHOLE lot of bad things to people with a longbow... particularly once he got himself some boots of haste - 30 feet is bad enough... 45 would be much much worse.

 

[Crothian]

But that's an ideal situation. Many things look bad in an ideal situation. And there are many factors to that. Is it really the sneak attack being allowed at 45 feet that is so devasting, or is the limited speed of small races? Perhaps it's the greater speed of monks that is the back breaker in that situation.

You need two feats before you get this feat, so that helps to greatly limit it's availibility. Will it help out characters? Well, ya, that's what it's supposed to do. It can be used to optimium conditions by combining it with shot on the run in the elven rogue example. But that is a total of 6 feats. You need a total of 15 character levels for the elven monk/rogue to get there. Sure, there are faster ways to get this feat combo, but in the example a 15th level character should be able to do some severe damage.

 

[Magus_Jerel]

The actual "worst combination" isn't rogue/monk.

Theoretical character at 6th level:

Fighter 4 - rogue 1 - barbarian 1

Feats, Point Blank Shot, Far Shot, Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run, Improved Sneak Attack Range, (Free feat?)

Spell effects that I can activate - haste and expeditious retreat.

The "attack spring sneak shot" can occur at a range of 125 feet with a longbow for:
1d8 +1d6 +str mod(w/ mighty bow) + magic enhancement
....
each and every round.

Also - If I am willing to not "spring back" - I get a full attack action, not just a single shot. This is important once My BAB exceeds +6 - and it will do so at 7th level.

I can add rapid shot into the mix - to take one extra shot on my full attack action, using My 9th level feat slot - If I did not do so back at first level for some added low level firepower.

At 10th level - the nastiness of My full attack action is:

Full attack BAB's w/rapid shot = +8 +8 +3
1d8 +3d6 (sneak) +str mod (mighty bow?) + magic enhancement

if all three shots hit... that is 3d8 +9d6 +3(str + magic bonuses)

each and every round... And the wizzie just got His big bad fireball up to 10d6.

Consider for the moment that once I manage to enter within about 120 feet (the range of the bulk of encounters) I can do a whole lot more damage than the wizard each and every round - and I don't have to worry about losing My spells to boot?

now my task is just to make sure I get My sneak attacks.



Secondarily - if you allow the damage range to be extended here... then you have two other areas you must consider favored enemy and weapon specialization.

 

[S'mon]

As for charging, that's what the designers wanted By making the limit 30ft they were basically saying - Ok, the archer can make a sneak attack, but then when the target gets to go, he can respond this round. By changing it to 45ft, now the archer would be 75ft away after a shot, which would mean the victim (barring movement enhancement) would not be able to reach the archer that round.

A lot of people don't seem to realise that charge is a standard action, not a full round action (thus zombies can charge). Therefore you can move 30', charge 60' and attack, in the same round - a total move of 90' with an attack.

You could also eg draw a weapon (move equivalent), charge 60', and attack, in the one round.

 

[hong]

A lot of people don't seem to realise that charge is a standard action, not a full round action (thus zombies can charge). Therefore you can move 30', charge 60' and attack, in the same round - a total move of 90' with an attack.

You could also eg draw a weapon (move equivalent), charge 60', and attack, in the one round.

You can take a double move, in a straight line, and then attack. You cannot take a move, double move, and attack. The double move counts as the movement portion of your round.

 

[S'mon]

A lot of people don't seem to realise that charge is a standard action, not a full round action (thus zombies can charge). Therefore you can move 30', charge 60' and attack, in the same round - a total move of 90' with an attack.

You could also eg draw a weapon (move equivalent), charge 60', and attack, in the one round.

Heavy infantry or creatures with spd 20' get to move 20' + charge 40' with total move 60' and an attack.

A barbarian rogue can sneak attack from 30' and move away 40'. getting out of that slow character's range, unless they have a 10' reach weapon.

Lucky barbarian-rogue.

 

[Zhure]

A lot of people don't seem to realise that charge is a standard action, not a full round action (thus zombies can charge). Therefore you can move 30', charge 60' and attack, in the same round - a total move of 90' with an attack.

You could also eg draw a weapon (move equivalent), charge 60', and attack, in the one round.

"Charge [Full][AoO: Yes]

Description: The combatant must move before attacking, not after. The combatant must move at least 10 feet and may move up to double base speed. All movement must be in a straight line, with no backing up allowed. The charge stops as soon as the combatant threatens the target. A combatant can't run past the target and attack from another direction. "

... and ...

"Partial charge... A combatant must move in a straight line before attacking and must move at least 10 feet."

As a partial action, one can make a partial charge but partial actions aren't ever taken by default, only in response to something else. For example, while hasted, one has partial actions, or during surprise rounds. Or a character could ready, then do a partial charge, but can't move + partial charge by strictest interpretation of the rules.

This prevents characters getting triple base move and attacking.

Note regarding zombies: "Partial Actions Only (Ex): Zombies have poor reflexes and can perform only partial actions. Thus they can move or attack, but can only do both if they charge (a partial charge)."

Thus, they can specifically charge, but only as a partial charge; i.e., move (at least ten feet) + charge.
Hope that helps,
Greg

 

[Magus_Jerel]

Um folks...

Minor point here. that 125 foot range is from where the charater is STANDING each and every round.

I am counting on the character in question moving out the maximum distance - firing, and then moving back from whence he came. Shot on the Run is the feat that allows this for ranged weapons.

 

[Caliban]

"Charge [Full][AoO: Yes]

This is from the unreleased part of the SRD, and it contradicts the PHB, which describes Charge as a "special" standard action.

The PHB takes precedence over the SRD.