point buy

[Abraxas]

posted by maddman75
I find the default one too complicated. AFAIAC if you have to look it up on a table its too complicated. So I have my players select their stats so that the total modifiers equal +8, with three even and three odd. Works rather well.

I've used this version of point buy: Set a bonus total, three odd, three even - It worked OK.

I prefer rolling for stats. Primarily because unless you allow an enormous amount of points (for the standard costs) the players end up with some low stats that really muck up basic character concepts. I just don't like the "high stat here at the cost of a below average stat some where else" system. Of course this carries over into another issue - that of too few skill points for most PCs.

A modified rolling method that I've used is 4d6 drop the lowest 7 times.
Look at everyones scores.
Everyone replaces their highest score with the highest of the high scores rolled by the group (so if one person rolls an 18 and no one else does they get to replace their highest score with an 18).
Everyone replaces their lowest score with the highest of the lowest scores rolled by the group (so if one person rolls no lower than 13 everyone else gets to replace their lowest score with a 13).

This worked well for us.

As for the lucky high roller messing up CR's and making encounters difficult, I've never had the problem of challenging the high roller using creatures right out of the book while at the same time not making things to difficult for the average rollers. Its just our gaming style.

 

[Blue Prussian]

I can't remember who first posted it here, but there was a variant of point-buy that I really liked.

The idea of it was to start the character creation process with a 28 point buy. If the players made up a good character history, they got another point. If they wrote a good family history, they got another point. If they described the character's hometown, they got another point. If they elaborated on the character's personality traits and any serious religious or political beliefs the character held, they got another point. If they came up with three plot hooks and described three organizations operating in the character's region, they got another point. Assuming a person did all these, they would have 33 points to use in their point-buy.

I thought it was a cool idea, since it rewarded character development and gave players a stake in the characters' world, since they were active members in a small part of its creation.

 

[RFisher]

If the players made up a good character history, they got another point.

Ugh! I really hate that kind of thing. I write backstory for my PCs when the inspiration strikes. Sometimes its before rolling the dice, sometimes after, sometimes after playing for a bit. Backstory should be written for its own sake, not for extra credit. I'm glad none of the DMs I've played with have ever done anything like that.

 

[Zappo]

I find the default one too complicated. AFAIAC if you have to look it up on a table its too complicated.

You don't need a table. Just remember that a point costs 1 up to 14, 2 for 15 and 16, and 3 for 17 and 18. It's very fast after you've done a couple of characters.

 

[fanboy2000]

I don't care. I've never had a problem with stat rolling. I can't help but wonder if the people who count up the stats for their PCs and find that it equivilant to a 50 point character are treating D&D like a calculus problem. I have trouble relating to that sort of thinking because I DM intuitively, it dosen't feel like I'm having problems with my players, and they're having fun.

I tried to get a group to go with point-buy but they rebelled. Oh well.

 

[Testament]

Point Buy. Always point buy. The very first D&D game I ever played I rolled nothing lower than a 14, whilst one other player got nothing higher than 15. Someone else missed out on the "Useless" rule by 1 point. I've seen other games like that, and quite frankly it creates dissatisfaction. It is not a case of "ooooh, someone call a Whaaambulance", its just a fact that having sucky stats forces your character into the back seat. And no-one likes being the Zeppo of the party!

Point buy, while it does take some of the excitement out of it, makes things clean and easy, and only a fool or a pink ninja will end up in the back seat. It also means I don't need to be present for character gen. I play with 30 points (I know that's a weird number. So sue me) but also give the option of 4k3 with a floater (one set can be rerolled) and an raised useless threshold. All my players bar 1 took the point buy, and the one who took the roll was going half-orc paladin, and wanted the prospect of a high set. That's his choice.

Oh, and the earlier comment from someone that if they complain about their stats they'll complain about anything shows nothing more than YAGD (You're All Gonna Die!) GM tendencies. I think it was said best here. Bad attack roll? Better luck next round. Bad stat array? Better luck next character.

 

[Chimera]

For our current FR game (in which I am a player), our GM let us start as 2nd level characters with one 18 stat and 25 points to spend on the other 5 stats. In other words, a 41 point character.

We've also been moving at an accelerated rate, so that we reached 5th level at the end of the 4th session. As the GM said, this is to get us to a point where we're not in danger of suddenly dropping dead at the slightest damage. Once we reach 6th level, the rate of experience gain will slow.

Do we feel cheated by the high stats and the accelerated experience? Heck no. It was met with quite a lot of enthusiasm by all of us. Because it allows us to play "better" characters and to play with our 'level up' stuff almost every session - at least for now. And it also means that we're likely to be able to play these characters to a higher level than many of us have had a chance to do so in the past.

For myself, I'm playing a Monk/Wizard. I can't imagine trying this combination on a 25 point buy - or even a 28 point buy - because I have only one 'dump' stat (and I don't like ability penalties).

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

I dislike point buy immensely.

Not that I have any problems with point-buy (its a fine way to do it), its just I hate doing it.

Why?

When I do a point buy, min-maxing is soooo, sooooo, sooooo, very easy. Ultimate fighter? Try a dwarf with a 9 Dex. Gives you a lot of stat points. you can where heavy armor and negate most of the Dex penalties. Get to 4th, pump a point in and you're no longer at any peanlties.

Actually, my main reason for hating pint buy is I like orginality. Point buy (for ALL teh reasons mentioned above) encourages every charcter to look the same. The very nature of D&D (check out any of the various computer games) leads to a certain "ideal" set of stats for any given charater class that follows a certain path. If you put all the info into a computer, said xx point buy and let it run, you'd get the same best fit scenerio again and again. (Not that EVERY player is a min-maxer, but point buy is the ideal test of any min-maxer's skills).

People have said point-buy lets them make sure their party's balanced from a game stand point. No, it doesn't. Four rogues under a 28 point buy, ain't balanced. Sure, it can help make sure everything is balanced. But what about character wealth? Gotta track that. Every PC needs an expense tracker so you know they have exactly teh x amount of gold they should have at each level.

Sorry, in my experience point-buy leads to balance, equality, and well, sameness. Not my style. As for uneven PC"s. Sorry don't buy it. Doesn't exist. The problem isn't (90% of the time) unbalenced Player Characters, but unbalenced PLAYERS. Players vary greatly in ability and style. I'm not blaming anybody, just that 2 different playing styles (even with point-buy) can lead to teh same character played in opposite ways. I've played a version of D&D for a decade and have only ONCE had a situation where the stats wer so unbalenced that 1 PC was obviously inferior to all others.

Of course, he was the most dice cursed guy I've ever seen. He'd roll nothing but 5 or less all night long (execpt for skill checks, he got 17+ on all those -2nd ed kids). Every night (I MEAN EVERY NIGHT), playing that game 1/week for almost 2 years. he had ONE critical hit, followed it up with a one & impaled himself on his own spear. For him, yea, I'd go point buy, as the average of ANY 4d6 drop one he rolled averaged about a 10.

Finnaly, I like to make my charater AFTER I've rolled my stats. I use my stats to make up my characters background. I find point-bu stiffels my own creativity.

Not against point-but, just not my style,
Vraille Darkfang