D&D (2024) Poll) Will the DMG2024 have Infinite Quivers?

[Azzy]

Different people are of course comfortable with different degrees of abstraction. To me, the only purpose ammo tracking actually serves is determining when you’ve run out, and maybe causing you to use your ammo more conservatively as you get closer to running out. An ammunition die does those things, without as much busywork. So, for my purposes it’s great. Other people will naturally have different preferences.

It is an interesting rule. I might steal it from you when I start DMing for a couple of newbies and someone that hasn't played D&D since 2e. I don't want to inundate them with with something that so nitpicky when it doesn't come up that often.

 

[Micah Sweet]

But you're not actually gonna run out of ammo! Like if you consistently would, then tracking would make sense, but if it almost never happens, it serves no purpose.

It can happen sometimes (particularly with firearms), so it serves a purpose in my game. I don't see why you're so insistent on me not caring about it.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

It can happen sometimes (particularly with firearms), so it serves a purpose in my game. I don't see why you're so insistent on me not caring about it.

Sorry. I'm really not. Keep on counting!

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sorry. I'm really not. Keep on counting!

Great! Whatever works for your table, right?

 

[Bacon Bits]

It can happen sometimes (particularly with firearms), so it serves a purpose in my game.

OK, I'll bite. What purpose does limited ammunition serve in your games? And do you use gritty realism recovery?

From my perspective, ammunition is just about the only resource that you can actually run out of in 5e. Long rests recover hp, HD, spells, and nearly everything else; they're a panacea for lost resources. Short rests recover hp and some abilities. There's no equipment durability system; no sunder abilities. There are readily accessible spells that make survival fairly easy. Light is easy to come by, as is fire. Water can be created by means of several spells. Food, too can be created by a spell. And there's a handful of shelter creating spells, too. And failing that, the Survival skill can get both food and water and fire and shelter. Compared to nearly any other edition of the game, adventuring in 5e D&D more closely resembles taking a fifth wheel trailer to a state park that has full hookups. "I'm camping!" Sure, sure.

The only actual attrition in the game that survives a long rest is: exhaustion, recovering spent HD, and spent ammunition. And two of those can be recovered simply by more long rests.

It seems that for the average party wandering around woods and wilderness of Faerun, the only reason you know that you'll need to go back to town is because you've run out of arrows.

Given that other weapons don't run out, and cantrips don't run out, and the fact that ammunition is dirt cheap (5cp/shot) I don't see what retaining the attrition on arrows and bolts accomplishes.

For the life of me I've not been able to figure out why they did that. Encouraging people to take 2 levels of artificer?

 

[Vaalingrade]

For the life of me I've not been able to figure out why they did that. Encouraging people to take 2 levels of artificer?

I feel like it was less of a choice and more of a fact that ammunition entries haven't changed more than some tiny editing in the last thirty years. It's just there on intertia.

 

[Micah Sweet]

OK, I'll bite. What purpose does limited ammunition serve in your games? And do you use gritty realism recovery?

From my perspective, ammunition is just about the only resource that you can actually run out of in 5e. Long rests recover hp, HD, spells, and nearly everything else; they're a panacea for lost resources. Short rests recover hp and some abilities. There's no equipment durability system; no sunder abilities. There are readily accessible spells that make survival fairly easy. Light is easy to come by, as is fire. Water can be created by means of several spells. Food, too can be created by a spell. And there's a handful of shelter creating spells, too. And failing that, the Survival skill can get both food and water and fire and shelter. Compared to nearly any other edition of the game, adventuring in 5e D&D more closely resembles taking a fifth wheel trailer to a state park that has full hookups. "I'm camping!" Sure, sure.

The only actual attrition in the game that survives a long rest is: exhaustion, recovering spent HD, and spent ammunition. And two of those can be recovered simply by more long rests.

It seems that for the average party wandering around woods and wilderness of Faerun, the only reason you know that you'll need to go back to town is because you've run out of arrows.

Given that other weapons don't run out, and cantrips don't run out, and the fact that ammunition is dirt cheap (5cp/shot) I don't see what retaining the attrition on arrows and bolts accomplishes.

For the life of me I've not been able to figure out why they did that. Encouraging people to take 2 levels of artificer?

For one thing, I don't play D&D 5e (either version). I play a modified version of Level Up, which has more rules to handle issues like weapon damage, more realistic resting and healing, etc.

 

[Lanefan]

BTW, a question to everyone: has anyone ever ran out of arrows in game you participated in, and if yes, what sort of circumstances lead to it occurring?

I can't remember ever running right out but I can remember many many a time when I conserved them - as in, did something other than shooting when my ammo supply was low - in order to not completely run out, so I'd still have a couple if I really needed them.

 

[Lanefan]

Oh, sure, in my experience basically every martial character carries some kind of ranged weapon as a backup, or at least a couple thrown weapons. But do they ever actually get used? Maybe once or twice in an adventuring day at most. So, in that case ammo tracking is completely unnecessary because the risk of running out is zero.

Well, that depends on two things:

1 - how many adventuring days pass between opportunities to resupply, and
2 - how many actual shots that "once or twice a day" represents.

At 2 or 3 shots per round a decent Fighter can burn through a lot of arrows in a hurry, and rare indeed IME is the character who regularly carries more than one 20-cap quiver around.

 

[Lanefan]

OK, I'll bite. What purpose does limited ammunition serve in your games? And do you use gritty realism recovery?

Well, with actual firearms that use bullets the typical recovery rate of used ammo would be zero, wouldn't it?

The only actual attrition in the game that survives a long rest is: exhaustion, recovering spent HD, and spent ammunition. And two of those can be recovered simply by more long rests.

It seems that for the average party wandering around woods and wilderness of Faerun, the only reason you know that you'll need to go back to town is because you've run out of arrows.

Given that other weapons don't run out, and cantrips don't run out, and the fact that ammunition is dirt cheap (5cp/shot) I don't see what retaining the attrition on arrows and bolts accomplishes.

The first bolded piece is the direct answer to the second bolded piece: it forces them to go back and resupply now and then.

I mean, something has to.